PIP no award, Help needed.

Hi Gordon, I have typed exactly the PIP Decision from the failed claim, I Still await the Face to face assessment copy but welcome your thoughts on what I Have so far and welcome any comments.
My decision
I made my decision using information about your health condition or disability including details of any treatment, medication, test results and symptoms. This information is the best we have available and enough to decide how much help you need. As your needs vary, my decision is based on the help you need most days. You said you can manage making budgeting decisions. I agree you can manage this activity. [My words: This is not true as he cant manage this activity]. You said you have difficulties engaging with other people face to face. I agree you have difficulties. You said you have difficulties preparing food, taking nutrition, managing therapy or monitoring a health condition, washing and bathing, managing toilet needs or incontinence, [My words: This is not true as he CAN manage toilet needs or incontinence and we ticked the form and said he is ok as regards toilet]. Dressing and undressing, communicating verbally and reading and understanding signs, symbols and words. You mental state examination found no memory, concentration, cognitive, sensory or intellectual impairments. You have no physical restrictions. You gave a detailed history of your conditions and medication. You report you are able to drive a manual car. You did not appear malnourished and you eat daily. You appeared well kempt. You are able to get on and off the toilet and clean yourself unaided. You were able to hear, understand and answer all questions asked. You report being able to read road signs, and items of interest on your computer. I have decided you can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided, eat and drink unaided, manage medication or therapy or monitor your health condition unaided, wash and bathe unaided, manage your toilet needs or incontinence unaided, dress and undress unaided, express and understand verbal information unaided and read and understand basic and complex information either unaided or using glasses or contact lenses.
You said you can manage moving around. I agree you can manage this activity. You said you have difficulty planning and following journeys. I agree you have difficulties. This is consistent with your medical history, informal observations at your face to face consultation, the evidence available at your face to face consultation, how you engaged with the assessor, the available evidence, the information you provided about how your disability affects you, your mental state examination results and your musculoskeletal examination results.
Yours sincerely ********

I firmly believe my Husband should at least be awarded the following:-

1. Preparing Food
I have been awarded No points for preparing food.
I Believe I should have been awarded 4 Points for this.
[e]. Needs supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal [ 4 POINTS ].

2. Eating And Drinking
I have been awarded No points for eating and drinking.
I Believe I should have been awarded 4 Points for this.
[d] Needs prompting to be able to take nutrition. [4 Points].

3. Managing Your Treatments
I have been awarded No points for managing your treatments.
I Believe I should have been awarded 1 Point for this.
needs either - [ii] supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage medication or monitor health condition [1 Point]

4. Washing and bathing
I have been awarded No points for washing and bathing.
I Believe I should have been awarded 2 Points for this.
[c] Needs supervision or prompting to be able to wash or bathe [2 Points]

6. Dressing and Undressing
I have been awarded No points for dressing and Undressing.
I Believe I should have been awarded 2 Points for this.
[c] Needs either:-
Prompting to be able to dress, undress or determine appropriate circumstance for the remaining clothed; OR
[ii] Prompting or assistance to be able to select appropriate clothing [2 Points]

10. Making budgeting decisions
I have been awarded No points for making budgeting decisions.
I Believe I should have been awarded 2 Points for this.
Needs prompting or assistance to be able to make complex budgeting decisions [2 Points].


My Husband did receive points for the following:-
9. Mixing with other people
I was awarded 2 Points for this.
Needs prompting to be able to engage with other people [2 Points]

Going out- Planning and following a journey
I was awarded 4 Points for this.
Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant [4 Points].

SO TO SUM UP:- He was awarded points for prompting on Two descriptors but none at all for prompting for:- “I have decided you can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided, eat and drink unaided, manage medication or therapy or monitor your health condition unaided, wash and bathe unaided, manage your toilet needs or incontinence unaided, dress and undress unaided, express and understand verbal information unaided and read and understand basic and complex information either unaided or using glasses or contact lenses”.
I also ask the question as to how I can prove that my husband receives the help, prompting that I give him? I Can’t see how I Can prove this unless someone else is physically in the house to prove this,
Sorry for the long thread, but thank you all so very much.

Hi Gordon,
Just received the PIP report-PA4 and although it says Page 1 of 28, page 4 and 28 seem to be missing.
here is an update:-
PIP CONSULTATION REPORT FORM-PA4

TOTAL TIME AT FACE TO FACE: 36 minutes.

1. Preparing Food
I have been awarded No points for preparing food.
I Believe I should have been awarded 4 Points for this.
[e]. Needs supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal [ 4 POINTS ].
UPDATE:- “The reported difficulties are inconsistent with MSE, adequate concentration/ memory, he drives a car and he behaved normally at the assessment. Therefore he will be able to reliably complete this activity unaided”.

2. Eating And Drinking
I have been awarded No points for eating and drinking.
I Believe I should have been awarded 4 Points for this.
[d] Needs prompting to be able to take nutrition. [4 Points].
UPDATE:- “The reported difficulties are inconsistent with MSE as he appeared to be average build. He did not appear to be malnourished, he reports he will have something to eat everyday. Therefore he will be able to reliably complete this activity unaided”.

3. Managing Your Treatments
I have been awarded No points for managing your treatments.
I Believe I should have been awarded 1 Point for this.
needs either - [ii] supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage medication or monitor health condition [1 Point]
UPDATE:- “The reported difficulties are inconsistent with MSE as he had adequate concentration and general memory. He drives a manual car therefore he will be able to reliably complete this activity unaided”.

4. Washing and bathing
I have been awarded No points for washing and bathing.
I Believe I should have been awarded 2 Points for this.
[c] Needs supervision or prompting to be able to wash or bathe [2 Points]
UPDATE:- “The reported difficulties are inconsistent with MSE as he appeared to be well kempt. He does not have any specialist involvement and he is not prescribed any anti depressant medication. Therefore he will be able to reliably complete this activity unaided”.

6. Dressing and Undressing
I have been awarded No points for dressing and Undressing.
I Believe I should have been awarded 2 Points for this.
[c] Needs either:-
Prompting to be able to dress, undress or determine appropriate circumstance for the remaining clothed; OR
[ii] Prompting or assistance to be able to select appropriate clothing [2 Points]
UPDATE:- “The reported difficulties are inconsistent with MSE as he appeared to be casually dressed. He does not have any specialist involvement and he is not prescribed any anti depressant medication. Therefore he will be able to reliably complete this activity unaided”.

10. Making budgeting decisions
I have been awarded No points for making budgeting decisions.
I Believe I should have been awarded 2 Points for this.
Needs prompting or assistance to be able to make complex budgeting decisions [2 Points].

UPDATE:- “The reported difficulties are inconsistent with MSE as he had adequate concentration and general memory. He drives a manual car. Within the informal observations it was noted that he gave a clear history and was able to answer the questions appropriately. Therefore he will be able to reliably complete this activity unaided”.


My Husband did receive points for the following:-
9. Mixing with other people
I was awarded 2 Points for this.
Needs prompting to be able to engage with other people [2 Points]
UPDATE:- “The reported difficulties with engaging in the questionnaire and functional history are consistent with the medication that he is prescribed for his anxiety. Within the MSE he appeared to be tense at the beginning of the assessment. Therefore he will need prompts to reliably complete this activity.”


Going out- Planning and following a journey
I was awarded 4 Points for this.
Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant [4 Points].
UPDATE:- “The reported difficulties with planning and following a journey are consistent with the medication he is prescribed for his anxiety. He reports in the functional history that most of the time his wife is with him as he will worry in case he meets people, Within the MSE he appeared to be tense at the beginning of the interview. However he does not have any specialist involvement. Therefore it is reasonable to state that he will need prompts to reliably complete this activity.”


I Have put that my husband has 4-5 bad days with 2-3 better days and varies from hour to hour and day to day, Severe depression, OCD, Anxiety, he does have a car which is mentioned a few times but literally uses it 1-2 times max a week or two depending on condition and usually to his mum and dads [three miles away] car was bought by his family and almost certainly will go to our son who has passed his test.
This is a few errors etc. put in the PA4 Form by the lady:-

“He is prescribed a low dose of medication for his anxiety, medication for his OCD, a sleeping tablet and a low dose of moderate pain relief”
[My words:- In fact he has the following:-
BUSPIRONE 10MG TABLETS [3 DAILY].
CLOMIPRAMINE 25MG CAPSULES [ONE IN THE MORNING & ONE AT NIGHT].
CLOMIPRAMINE 50MG CAPSULES [ONE IN THE MORNING & FOUR AT NIGHT].
ZOPICLONE 7.5MG TABLETS [TWO AT NIGHT].
GABAPENTIN 300MG CAPSULES [ONE THREE TIMES A DAY].

“He confirmed his medication from the computer screen and described what he took them for”
[My words:- In fact he needed my help to be sure it was correct as I give him the medication”.

“ He was able to bend down and tie his shoe laces”
[My words:- In fact on the way out of the room after the assessment the lady said to my husband that his lace was undone, he then fastened his lace, ironically if it wasn’t for the assessors prompting he might not have noticed !!!]

To sum up he appeared Normall and wore clothes so he cant be ill !!! :-

The reported difficulties are inconsistent with MSE as he had:-
he behaved normally at the assessment.
He did not appear to be malnourished
Therefore he will be able to reliably complete this activity unaided”.

Also incorrect as he does take Clomipraqmine for Depression:-
“he is not prescribed any anti depressant medication. Therefore he will be able to reliably complete this activity unaided”.

Thanks again and take care.

If he is severely depressed, it may be a concern he is not on any meds for depression or having any other support with this. If he has support from the MH team for such a ling standing problem it might be helpful to mention it. OCD and depression are conditions people can recover from and it is a shame he does not seem to have had much support (from MH / GP I mean)