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PIP paper assessment

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6 years 11 months ago #187350 by pomaus
PIP paper assessment was created by pomaus
I have just transferred from DLA to PIP and gone from Middle Rate Care and Low rate mobility to Standard rate living and no mobility.
I am in the process of a mandatory reconsideration.

I am confused though about everything that has happened with my claim so far and whether the correct procedure has been followed.

I provided evidence from Psychologist and GP that I needed a home assessment.
I received a letter from Atos saying that I had to have a f2f.
I phoned up in a state of panic as I should have been having a home assessment, only to be told that this was being refused as I was assessed as posing a risk to myself and to others when I become Psychologically distressed as referenced in the Psychologist report and as a result I could not have a home visit and would have to attend a f2f.
After having a complete breakdown on the telephone and becoming hysterical the call was taken over by a psychiatric Nurse.
After eventually calming down, it was decided that they had enough evidence in the form of psychologist reports to do a paper assessment and i would not need a f2f.
At no point during the call was i asked questions about my claim form or how my disabilities effects me, the call was entirely about calming me down from a severe Psychological episode.

It came as a huge shock a couple of weeks later when my award came through for only standard rate living 11 points
and
No mobility because they only scored me 4 points for "prompting"
This makes no sense as ATOS assessors had already judged me as posing a substantial risk to myself and others when psychologically distressed hence the reason for refusing a home visit.

I submitted a mandatory reconsideration, using the guides on this site, I also asked for a copy of the healthcare professionals report who completed the assessment.
That has turned up and my first issue is that there is no mention of my mental breakdown on the telephone and the psychiatric nurse having to intervene.
I also noticed that the form that has been filed in is a Review Report Form - PA3 and not a Consultation report form – PA4 V3
Is this because in theory I never had a consultation because a f2f did not take place? This is after all not a review and my first application for PIP albeit a transfer from DLA

Clearly the report does not mention observations or responses to any questions, because there were not any

The PA3 form only has a box about brief summary of clinical details, then it goes straight to the healthcare professional opinion on activities and the descriptors.

Although I have already submitted my mandatory reconsideration before receiving the health care professionals report, the decision maker has said in the letter that I have another 28 days to submit further evidence in response to the report, should I wish to do so.

My question is,
1) did the health care professional fill in the right form ( I am worried that if I mention this the decision maker would say, I have to go through an actual assessment now with the correct form)
2) should I ask why there is no mention of the mental breakdown on the call to atos which resulted in Atos having to get a psychiatric nurse on the phone
3) shouldn't the fact that Atos healthcare assessed me as posing a substantial risk to myself and others when under psychological distress after reading the psychologists reports and accepting that evidence and refused a home visit on that basis, should that have been evidence enough that I should have been awarded the mobility component due to severe mental health disorders and i need supervision when outdoors?

How would I go about phrasing point 3) in mandatory reconsideration.

Any help appreciated and Many thanks

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6 years 11 months ago #187394 by Gordon
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP paper assessment
Peter

The people that you spoke to on the phone will not have been directly involved in your assessment, if at all, so it is likely that the breakdown that you had while you are on the phone was not communicated to those that did assess you.

I'm afraid that substantial risk is not considered for PIP, you need to meet specific criteria to score points.

A PA3 is completed when the assessment is done without seeing the claimant.

If you hope to score higher for the PIP Mobility then you must either show that you cannot go out on your own, or that for reasons other than psychological distress, your conditions prevent you from following (navigating) an unfamiliar or familiar route.

If you have further questions then please reply to this post.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

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6 years 11 months ago #187401 by pomaus
Replied by pomaus on topic PIP paper assessment
Thanks for your reply Gordon.

The psychologist report that I submitted, stated that I rarely go out and can only do so with support and supervision from another person.
That I am unable to use public transport due to severe psychological disorders
That I need support and supervision to manage the substantial risk i pose to myself and other's
Evidence of self harming and suicidal attempts.

I am not sure what else could have been said.

Surely Psychiatric evidence from consultant psychologist that I can not use public transport should have been enough to satisfy the criteria?

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6 years 11 months ago #187412 by mandy76
Replied by mandy76 on topic PIP paper assessment
Hi Pomaus

May I ask what points you scored for activity of "Mixing with other People"? It is just that I found myself in a similar situation. I was refused a home F2F and even a local assessment because ATOS thought I might be a risk to their staff due to information contained in my PIP2 form. Ironically though, I was only awarded 2 points for "needs prompting to be able to engage with other people". The very fact ATOS felt there was a risk in my case seems to be missing the point on the following descriptor d (iii) "the claimant exhibits behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person 8 points."

What I'm trying to say is that in relation to your question 3 it seems more appropriate to mixing with other people rather then mobility component as Gordon explained.

I wish you luck with your MR.

Phidgity.

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6 years 11 months ago #187422 by Gordon
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP paper assessment

pomaus wrote: Thanks for your reply Gordon.

The psychologist report that I submitted, stated that I rarely go out and can only do so with support and supervision from another person.
That I am unable to use public transport due to severe psychological disorders
That I need support and supervision to manage the substantial risk i pose to myself and other's
Evidence of self harming and suicidal attempts.

I am not sure what else could have been said.

Surely Psychiatric evidence from consultant psychologist that I can not use public transport should have been enough to satisfy the criteria?


Unfortunately, whilst the DWP guidance makes reference to the use of Public Transport, the legally defined Descriptors do not and we regularly see DM's refuse points for the use of this.

The higher Mobility Descriptor refers to "Cannot undertake any journey", you can argue that this does not mean "never" due to the requirement to do the activity reliably, but I think that the standard that you will need to meet will be far higher than the normal "majority of days"

The next stage in the process is to request an appeal.

The PIP Appeal guide has links to the SSCS1 form that you will need to complete and the Submissions guide has a complete example that you can use to help you fill it in, you do not need to provide detailed reasons at this stage for your request.

Once your appeal is accepted the DWP will prepare their submission to the hearing and send you a copy, whilst you should wait until you receive this to finish and submit your own, you should start to prepare your own case, an increased award will only be made by your showing that you score the extra points for one, so I would start by going back through your PIP2, the assessment report and the PIP Claim guide to see how you might show this is the case.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

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6 years 11 months ago #187428 by pomaus
Replied by pomaus on topic PIP paper assessment
Thanks for the reply Gordon.

I have not had a response from the Mandatory Reconsideration that i sent in as yet.

i have submitted a lot of further evidence, more Psychiatric reports and more examples of the difficulties that I have with this activity,

I will just have to wait and see what the result of that is.

Btw in response to your first response, the people I spoke to on the phone at ATOS are the same people who filled out the PA3. The Psychiatric Nurse who took over the call, is the person who has filled out the assessment.
That's why i am surprised there is no mention of the breakdown anywhere on the form.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Gordon

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