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MR back 0 points although awarded 8 at assessment
- amberkindness
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7 years 6 months ago #170546 by amberkindness
MR back 0 points although awarded 8 at assessment was created by amberkindness
Got my MR back and awarded 0 points.
My MR was very strong and I think I had highlighted everything very well.
The DWP reasoning is there was no evidence for two of the descriptors, washing and bathing and getting dressed although I explained about this in my PIP2 and was asked about it at assessment, a CPN report was also used which backed up one of the descriptors.
They used what I had said in the previous tribunal about eating and said there was no evidence anything had changed but I fully explained in my PIP2 about problems I had and with this. I have lost alot of weight since the last tribunal.
Even though I have help in place at work to deal with severe anxiety, they said there was no evidence I didn't engage with the person helping me!
Finally they said taking nutrition is just if I couldn't move my arms and or be able to put food in my mouth and had nothing to do with what I was eating or how little.
The ATOS HP who took the points off me mixed up engaging with other people with the mobility descriptor (which I never applied for) and never gave any reasoning for stripping me of those points as well.
I feel they are just clutching at straws.
I hope you can understand what I've written.
Can I please have some much needed advice.
My MR was very strong and I think I had highlighted everything very well.
The DWP reasoning is there was no evidence for two of the descriptors, washing and bathing and getting dressed although I explained about this in my PIP2 and was asked about it at assessment, a CPN report was also used which backed up one of the descriptors.
They used what I had said in the previous tribunal about eating and said there was no evidence anything had changed but I fully explained in my PIP2 about problems I had and with this. I have lost alot of weight since the last tribunal.
Even though I have help in place at work to deal with severe anxiety, they said there was no evidence I didn't engage with the person helping me!
Finally they said taking nutrition is just if I couldn't move my arms and or be able to put food in my mouth and had nothing to do with what I was eating or how little.
The ATOS HP who took the points off me mixed up engaging with other people with the mobility descriptor (which I never applied for) and never gave any reasoning for stripping me of those points as well.
I feel they are just clutching at straws.
I hope you can understand what I've written.
Can I please have some much needed advice.
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- Gordon
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7 years 6 months ago #170548 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic MR back 0 points although awarded 8 at assessment
amberkindness
Looking at your previous posts you have said that you have compulsions and rituals, do you have a diagnosis of OCD? Or is it something similar?
Without further information it would seem that the issue of reliability would be at the heart of your form, so have you explained about your rituals? Can you show that because of these activities such as washing and bathing and dressing and undressing take you far longer than they would a healthy person, you need to show that they take at least twice the time.
Do you have problems if your rituals are interrupted or do not end in the correct result? This would also create issues of time but also would include "to a necessary and appropriate standard"
For activities that are themselves repetitive, do you have to repeat your ritual each time for each repetition?
I am afraid the Eating and Drinking activity is about the physical activity of eating, it does not consider issues related to the quality of the food or it's nutritional value, this would come under Preparing a meal.
Although you talk about accommodations that have been made at work in regard to Social Contact, I think you will struggle to show that you meet the legal definitions if you have any regular contact at work with other employees, there may also be issues in your travelling to and from work
A tribunal panel will take a much more balanced approach to looking at the evidence available, so you may have more success. Have a look at the PIP MR & Appeal guide for links to the SSCS1 form you will need to complete and instructions on how to complete it.
Gordon
Looking at your previous posts you have said that you have compulsions and rituals, do you have a diagnosis of OCD? Or is it something similar?
Without further information it would seem that the issue of reliability would be at the heart of your form, so have you explained about your rituals? Can you show that because of these activities such as washing and bathing and dressing and undressing take you far longer than they would a healthy person, you need to show that they take at least twice the time.
Do you have problems if your rituals are interrupted or do not end in the correct result? This would also create issues of time but also would include "to a necessary and appropriate standard"
For activities that are themselves repetitive, do you have to repeat your ritual each time for each repetition?
I am afraid the Eating and Drinking activity is about the physical activity of eating, it does not consider issues related to the quality of the food or it's nutritional value, this would come under Preparing a meal.
Although you talk about accommodations that have been made at work in regard to Social Contact, I think you will struggle to show that you meet the legal definitions if you have any regular contact at work with other employees, there may also be issues in your travelling to and from work
A tribunal panel will take a much more balanced approach to looking at the evidence available, so you may have more success. Have a look at the PIP MR & Appeal guide for links to the SSCS1 form you will need to complete and instructions on how to complete it.
Gordon
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- amberkindness
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7 years 6 months ago #170551 by amberkindness
Replied by amberkindness on topic MR back 0 points although awarded 8 at assessment
Hi Gordon,
I don't have an official diagnosis although my CPN mentioned the problems I have with compulsions in her letter (which I used for my last application although the HP assessor looked at it for this assessment) I'm waiting to see a psychologist although it wasn't particularly for getting a diagnosis. My MH problems are depression, anxiety disorder, panic attacks, chronic pain, obsessions and compulsions.
I said it takes a long time to get washed as I have compulsions to wash in a certain way and this is the same with dressing. I said if they go wrong, I have to start the whole process over again. I further explained this at the assessment. Discussing this at a tribunal will be very very difficult if not impossible as it's so personal and embarrassing, the rituals just sound bizarre and it's hard to be verbally expressive about this.
Yes I have to keep repeating the rituals, it's obsessive thoughts which cause compulsions and being worried about being/feeling dirty when I'm washing and repeated rituals with getting dressed as I have to keep repeating the same thing over and over in my head and if it goes wrong I will have to start all over again, I'm worried my clothes are dirty/evil. I think this takes twice as long as other people who do not have these problems and I find it very frustrating.
I get help to deal with crowd and and events at work as I can't cope with this as have panic attacks. In occupational health recommendation they said I need help when it's busy. I said in my PIP2 form I can turn to colleagues at work when I need help even when it is not busy. I don't have any major problems with traveling, so I'm not bothered about this and I never applied for it.
The irony is I was awarded only two points last time and this was for engaging with others, DWP took them away and the tribunal re-awarded them. I never wrote exactly what the problems were with washing and bathing and getting dressed last time in my PIP2 and my eating has got worse and this effects making meals.
Have the DWP any right to use what I said in an old tribunal as evidence for a new claim for Pip? Is it just the case of explaining what the problems are and how things have changed?
I feel a bit silly for mistaking the taking nutrition and not eating properly for mental health.
Thanks for your help
I don't have an official diagnosis although my CPN mentioned the problems I have with compulsions in her letter (which I used for my last application although the HP assessor looked at it for this assessment) I'm waiting to see a psychologist although it wasn't particularly for getting a diagnosis. My MH problems are depression, anxiety disorder, panic attacks, chronic pain, obsessions and compulsions.
I said it takes a long time to get washed as I have compulsions to wash in a certain way and this is the same with dressing. I said if they go wrong, I have to start the whole process over again. I further explained this at the assessment. Discussing this at a tribunal will be very very difficult if not impossible as it's so personal and embarrassing, the rituals just sound bizarre and it's hard to be verbally expressive about this.
Yes I have to keep repeating the rituals, it's obsessive thoughts which cause compulsions and being worried about being/feeling dirty when I'm washing and repeated rituals with getting dressed as I have to keep repeating the same thing over and over in my head and if it goes wrong I will have to start all over again, I'm worried my clothes are dirty/evil. I think this takes twice as long as other people who do not have these problems and I find it very frustrating.
I get help to deal with crowd and and events at work as I can't cope with this as have panic attacks. In occupational health recommendation they said I need help when it's busy. I said in my PIP2 form I can turn to colleagues at work when I need help even when it is not busy. I don't have any major problems with traveling, so I'm not bothered about this and I never applied for it.
The irony is I was awarded only two points last time and this was for engaging with others, DWP took them away and the tribunal re-awarded them. I never wrote exactly what the problems were with washing and bathing and getting dressed last time in my PIP2 and my eating has got worse and this effects making meals.
Have the DWP any right to use what I said in an old tribunal as evidence for a new claim for Pip? Is it just the case of explaining what the problems are and how things have changed?
I feel a bit silly for mistaking the taking nutrition and not eating properly for mental health.
Thanks for your help
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- Gordon
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7 years 6 months ago #170572 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic MR back 0 points although awarded 8 at assessment
amberkindness
I'm afraid not having a diagnosis will definitely disadvantage you, mental health is poorly understood by most assessors and Decision Makers and it is common for them to minimise the effects that a claimant suffer from.
You need to give serious thought to documenting your rituals in detail, based on your posts your ability to score points is dependant on you showing that you cannot complete certain activities reliably, if you don't explain your problems I think it unlikely that you score points and overturn the Decision. I do understand how personal these rituals are to you but without a diagnosis I think that this is the only way forward.
Gordon
I'm afraid not having a diagnosis will definitely disadvantage you, mental health is poorly understood by most assessors and Decision Makers and it is common for them to minimise the effects that a claimant suffer from.
You need to give serious thought to documenting your rituals in detail, based on your posts your ability to score points is dependant on you showing that you cannot complete certain activities reliably, if you don't explain your problems I think it unlikely that you score points and overturn the Decision. I do understand how personal these rituals are to you but without a diagnosis I think that this is the only way forward.
Gordon
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- amberkindness
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7 years 6 months ago #170608 by amberkindness
Replied by amberkindness on topic MR back 0 points although awarded 8 at assessment
Thanks for your reply.
Would I be able to write exactly what the rituals are and ask the tribunal to look at this as I find it unbearably difficult to talk about?
Would I have to write how many times I have to perform a ritual and why I do this?[/li]
Do I write about thoughts in my head that I'm trying to stop which makes me perform the rituals?
Should I also emphasise the time it takes?[/li]
I really don't understand why I have to go through a tribunal when at assessment the HP said it takes a long time for me to perform these tasks above. My GP wrote of the problems I have and HP used a previous letter from my CPN.
The Atos assessor who over ruled the face to face assessment use the fact there was no current mental health input, medical history and medication. I was actually seeing a counselor. I have a long medical history of mental health problems and have had various help throughout the years and at time of assessment I was on a moderate dose of medication for depression and high for anxiety and panic.
Is it the tribunals job to ascertain my medical history, medication and mental health input or is this something I have to make sure I tell them? I find it difficult to speak at tribunals, I find it very intimidating and feel very vulnerable.
Thank you
Would I be able to write exactly what the rituals are and ask the tribunal to look at this as I find it unbearably difficult to talk about?
Would I have to write how many times I have to perform a ritual and why I do this?[/li]
Do I write about thoughts in my head that I'm trying to stop which makes me perform the rituals?
Should I also emphasise the time it takes?[/li]
I really don't understand why I have to go through a tribunal when at assessment the HP said it takes a long time for me to perform these tasks above. My GP wrote of the problems I have and HP used a previous letter from my CPN.
The Atos assessor who over ruled the face to face assessment use the fact there was no current mental health input, medical history and medication. I was actually seeing a counselor. I have a long medical history of mental health problems and have had various help throughout the years and at time of assessment I was on a moderate dose of medication for depression and high for anxiety and panic.
Is it the tribunals job to ascertain my medical history, medication and mental health input or is this something I have to make sure I tell them? I find it difficult to speak at tribunals, I find it very intimidating and feel very vulnerable.
Thank you
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- Gordon
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7 years 6 months ago #170611 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic MR back 0 points although awarded 8 at assessment
amberkindness
I would recommend your writing your ritual down rather than trying to explain it orally, that way you will not be as stressed and you can take your time doing it so that you explain it in as much detail as possible.
So you need to explain why you do the ritual, what it consists of and how long it takes you to complete, this last bit is important as you are trying to show that the time it takes you to do an activity is at least twice what it would take for someone who does not have these problems.
You need to explain what happens if for some reason the ritual is interrupted or you do not get the result you expected, how often this occurs? Again this goes against the time it takes.
Do you always do the rituals? What would happen if you did not or were unable to? How would you feel?
The more you put down on paper, the less that you will have to explain at a Tribunal hearing.
If there are historical reasons why you do the rituals then if you are able to, explaining these will definitely help your case and again, it may mean that you do not get asked in detail about them at a hearing.
Gordon
I would recommend your writing your ritual down rather than trying to explain it orally, that way you will not be as stressed and you can take your time doing it so that you explain it in as much detail as possible.
So you need to explain why you do the ritual, what it consists of and how long it takes you to complete, this last bit is important as you are trying to show that the time it takes you to do an activity is at least twice what it would take for someone who does not have these problems.
You need to explain what happens if for some reason the ritual is interrupted or you do not get the result you expected, how often this occurs? Again this goes against the time it takes.
Do you always do the rituals? What would happen if you did not or were unable to? How would you feel?
The more you put down on paper, the less that you will have to explain at a Tribunal hearing.
If there are historical reasons why you do the rituals then if you are able to, explaining these will definitely help your case and again, it may mean that you do not get asked in detail about them at a hearing.
Gordon
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