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HORRIFIC PIP TELEPHONE APPEAL 8 months 3 weeks ago #175185

Well after being booted off PIP after a very unfair medical back in April 16, i went through the MR, then submitted a substantial written appeal which I couldnt of made any more comprehensive, as its gone on for sooo long I have sent in two further written updates and all medical evidence between now and then.. I asked for a paper hearing specifically because I suffer from social anxieties and knew that put under pressure I would fluff everything up and miss loads of information out, plus i didnt want it to go against me turning up in person with them saying well look you got here ok etc..- the paper appeals i put in took me ages...they scheduled me a hearing in Sep 16 but this was adjourned by the judge of this appeal saying it was in my best interest to have an oral hearing, I came on here for advice and was told i could request a telephone hearing so i requested this in writing...then didnt hear anything for another 6 weeks at which point I called tribunal service and was told my hearing was going ahead on paper the following week and i would get a result the week after..so i waited and waited and then instead of getting a paper hearing result was sent a letter saying my telephone hearing was going ahead in another 3 weeks. I complained to the tribunal service and they wrote to me saying it was due to a clerical error on their part
I didnt want a telephone hearing and was dreading it on a daily basis, but felt it was better to have some input than none at all, and after reading other users on the forums reviews the night before they said how lovely their panel were and wasnt nearly as bad as they expected and over in 40 mins, it actually lulled me into false sense of security that it would all be ok.
I had all my paperwork in front of me and honestly thought was just going to be a few questions that needed clarifying but instead they put me on a speaker phone, i could barely hear what they were saying - I did keep saying this but the judge made clear she begrudged having to do the hearing over the phone and kept tutting that she would have to move nearer to the phone and move all her paperwork, it clearly went against me as they showed ZERO compassion, baring in mind my main illness is depression/anxiety/emotionally unstable personality disorder - there were 3 people present and I was passed from one to the other who were going over my 600 pages of appeal papers, selecting out the most incriminating extracts from my pyschiatric reports from years ago and asking me to justify what it said.. while one was questioning me or rather accusing me, the others were rifling through my papers looking for the next line of questioning, there was no let up and this went on for 1hr 35mins without a break! I broke down numerous times, and was in a shaking shivering mess within a short time but they took full advantage of manipulating my fragile state of mind and inability to keep on subject......i was slaughtered.. it was like bein in a court and having 3 prosectutors and no defence team..obv in retrospect i needed someone with me or at least counsel! but id thought over phone not nec and besides i live 200 miles from family so no one could of helped..they didnt want to know any of my up to date medical information saying could only go on what presented in April when i was declined my benefit...but they were not consistant with this line of direction and were quite happy to use pyshciatric history from 2 years earlier that was not relevant in april 16?? Its only in ruminating over the whole ordeal i can see now without emotion how they tripped me up and didnt touch on important points for my case..so far as asking me questions about my daily routine - i said depends on good/bad days..them saying ok lets start with good days..then once got that information someone else jumped in with another line of questioning and we never covered bad days!!!..
honestly by the end i was in such a state i was suicidal..my family had to try and console me remotely and stop me from doing something stupid, but i have been haunted by the whole ordeal since unable to sleep at night for going over the whole dialogue...its really out of order for someone they know is mentally unstable..
At the end they just said "ok i think thats all we need we'll write to you with a decision goodbye" i was like eh? hello? what bout my questions?? I had to find the number for the court and call back the clerk and begged her for result over phone - she immed spoke to the judge who relayed back to me that it was my choice to have a telephone hearing therefore I will be posted the result, even the clerk tried sympathise saying you should of come in!? i said i have social anxieties i had no choice!
i then called again and said could i get someone to collect the letter that afternoon, and she spoke judge again who again abruptly relayed they were still deliberating and had a whole afternoon of other cases i would have to wait...
needless to say I felt the judge was extremely harsh, she begrudged me from the start regarding the phone hearing, and needless to say i got my result today and its been declined - they have only granted me 3 points out of around 20 odd i stated i qualified for - my previous award was 17 points and i had no physical ailments then. And the points they have given me were for the least relevant criteria. They barely touched on any of my physical ailments and i did try to bring these up but was swiftly moved on. These have not even been touched on in the points awarded and these are factual backed up with multiple consultants letters. When i stated at the start i thought my points would of gone up not down due to my having so many more physical problems on top of my mental health the judge actually stated "what physical problems?" and then did a side by side comparison of my first form and my most recent form 18mths apart and read through my list of stated conditions but never elaborated on them. She even said yes well the last person to award you PIP was giving you a chance as you were due to start intense therapy and we were giving you a chance to get better, but now that time has passed and Im clearly not better and 'cured' (from a lifetime of mental health problems) they were insinuating my time was up!
Now i will be writing for the statement of reasons, but i see an upper tribunal takes up to a year and seeing as all my work ive put into this appeal from april til nov has clearly been in vain ive little hope of what good it will do..but my quesiton to you is, do i have any grounds for having an unfair appeal with a clearly biased judge??
The following user(s) said Thank You: Louisa

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HORRIFIC PIP TELEPHONE APPEAL 8 months 3 weeks ago #175209


I am really sorry to hear that your appeal went so badly.

It is very difficult to prove bias by the panel, you would need to show that they went far further than the robust questioning that a panel would be expected to do.

I would certainly wait for the Statement of Reasons before taking any further action. If you could show that the Decision that was made was not one that a reasonable person might have made based on the information available then this might suggest bias.

If you requested the SoR on the day then it should be produced quite quickly. Once you have it, then you need to get face to face advice from a trained advisor, without sight of all the papers involved in the appeal, it would be impossible for us on the forum to give credible advice.


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Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

HORRIFIC PIP TELEPHONE APPEAL 8 months 3 weeks ago #175247

ok thanks Gordon - the only other angle i read about on another forum post reply by yourselves (another moderator) was to apply again for PIP a fresh claim as it was only taking 16 wks currently - is this an option? how does this work if you have just been through an appeal and been declined? there are medical issues that have exaccabated since last filling out the form in Dec 15 and they refused to listen to anything that was in this realm after april 16 when my medical was - however as i said this was not consistant as they would then say oh what is the diagnosis now then?
and no i have to write in for the statement of reasons as i received my result by post only yesterday - according to your guide this can take up to 3 weeks to receive and with xmas around then i'd imagine even longer plus i will be away with family by then.
even if i wasnt proving bias do i have any grounds for an unfair trial? and thats what it was - a trial - not a tribunal.

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HORRIFIC PIP TELEPHONE APPEAL 8 months 3 weeks ago #175274

You would only be able to take this further by showing an Error in Law. Even then, it could take another year or so for another decision to be made (appeal to Upper Tier Tribunal, granted, returned to 1st Tier Tribunal for new decision . . )

What is an Error of Law?

You can reapply for PIP immediately and include details of everything that has arisen since April.

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Last Edit: by Mrs Hurtyback.

HORRIFIC PIP TELEPHONE APPEAL 8 months 3 weeks ago #175316

I've got a telephone tribunal in two weeks and now I'm very worried.

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HORRIFIC PIP TELEPHONE APPEAL 8 months 3 weeks ago #175321

abby wrote: I've got a telephone tribunal in two weeks and now I'm very worried.

This is an exception to the rule, claimants should expect robust questioning about there issues but it should not resemble the issues that cazzyclay had.

Being able to explain your problems to the panel on the day is the best way for a claimant to win there Tribunal.


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Moderators: bro58GordonMrs Hurtyback