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Home visit & new ruling on dwp not taking previous

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6 years 9 months ago #191265 by Gordon
Sula

DM's do not have discretion to follow Case Law as they wish. They are issued with guidelines on how to interpret and apply the law. These guidelines can be updated as a result of Case Law, but usually only three Judge Decisions.

The Case Law you are specifically referring to applies specifically to the operation of a PIP Tribunal and I can find no DWP memo that cover it's applicability to the initial Decision.

I want to assure that I really do understand the issues you are raising and the impact they are having on you, I just don't have a solution!

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sula Maye

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6 years 9 months ago #191282 by Sula Maye
Thanks Gordon. How do I differnetiate which caselaw I can quote at MR and which I can't? for example following that link you sent me i can see one ruling that if argued for and applied at my original tribunal would have altered my care to higher from standard Engaging with other people face-to-face (Activity 9) - they supported the HP in concluding that the fact I had engaged with both assessment and Tribunal (ignoring my obvious difficulty in doing so and the knock on effect of doing so) meant that I got zero points for that activity. If I end up at MR again can I quote that case? How can I know which caselaws listed on the disability site are ones the MR are allowed to refer to?

Do all these UT cases only apply at tribunal in effect? They are not arguable prior to Tribunal?

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6 years 9 months ago #191303 by Gordon
Sula

You can use what ever Case Law you wish in regard to your MR, I'm just saying that you should not expect the DWP to pay any attention to it, they may do but they probably won't. If the DWP accept a ruling then they update their guidance to DMs and assessors, where this happens we'll update the guides.

Case Law can affect how benefits operate, but it is often the case that the ruling is issued because the Tribunal panel failed to do something. It is the failure that is the Error, had they looked at the issue then there may have been no Error, even if the Decision was the same.

In some cases, usually three Judge panels, they actually make a Decision that defines how the law operates (The Descriptors are defined in law), an example of this was the ruling that defined how the Going Out activity operated which then resulted in the Descriptors being redefined.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

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6 years 9 months ago #191390 by Sula Maye
I'm sorry my brain just doesn't work like it used to, could you clarify that last paragraph?

Is it ok or not that the tribunal findings agreed with the HP assessor in her original report that as I had 'engaged with the assessment' and also the tribunal I could not claim I had any problmem in engaging with people? I found getting no points for this particularly annoying because talking to other people, even my own child, is THE most exhausting thing I can do, short of actually forcing my body to move more than a short distance. It makes no logical sense to me that you can be penalised for coming to an assessment and answering their questions, when if we don't do that we will be awarded nothing. I don't understand, could I in theory challenge that or not?

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6 years 9 months ago #191431 by Gordon

Sula Maye wrote: I'm sorry my brain just doesn't work like it used to, could you clarify that last paragraph?


Prior to February of this year the DWP guidance was that Descriptors (d) and (f) of the Going Out activity were concerned with the navigation of a route and that only sensory or cognitive problems could be the cause of problems.

There had been a number of successful challenges to this and in February a Three Judge UTT panel ruled that whilst they agreed it was an issue of navigation that they believed that claimants with mental health problems could also experience problems with the navigation of a route and could therefore score the points.

The DWP did not agree with this Decision and I believe are challenging it, however they also amended the two Descriptors to remove the vast majority of cases where a mental health issue would prevent the navigation of a route.

As to Mixing with other People. it depends on the extent of your problems and the circumstances in which you are able to mix. As a general rule attending an assessment or an appeal, will depreciate your claim that you cannot meet with other people, I am afraid this is a reasonable conclusion.

However some claimants can be with others in specific circumstances, the activity s about mixing socially with others, so there is an argument that the assessment and an appeal are not social situations and that is why a claimant may be able to manage them, the feeling (real of not) that they are meeting a person or persons in authority can contribute to this. There is also the compulsion to attend the assessment or have your claim closed.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

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6 years 9 months ago #191478 by Sula Maye
But by that ruling about attending being a signifier of social communication not one person, unless unconscious, could ever claim points for that descriptor. Can you give me an example of anyone who gets points for that?

Talking to people is exhausting for me, I even have to avoid my own partner and child for 50% of the day to recover from and prepare for further engagement with them. I have NO SOCIAL LIFE. My best friend of over 25 years visits 4 times a year and I have to rest before and after talking to her, or simply say we can't talk, I can't do it now.

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