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TOPIC: Failed tribunal - lies, so is there any point? :(

Failed tribunal - lies, so is there any point? :( 2 weeks 2 days ago #194608

Hi all.

73 weeks after my first claim, I attended my tribunal earlier this year (think it was February) after receiving advice and help from a charity (fightback4justice) when my MR was unsuccessful. My claim is for both physical disabilities (hypermobility and fibromyalgia) and mental health (borderline personality disorder, anxiety, depression, suspected PTSD).
I have been consistently give 4 points for Daily Living (aids to cook and bathe) and 4 points for mobility (walking distance of 50-100m).

I failed at my Tribunal and the charity requested the reasons. I received them last week.

My current status is that I put in a brand new claim with the help of the charity, who filled in my entire form for me. My assessment (I was refused a home assessment) is next Monday after 1 cancellation by me due to the anxiety making my mental health so bad.

However, since receiving the reasons why my points remained unchanged I am wondering if there is any point in me continuing to try and claim PIP, because they omitted things from their final decision and also lied about things. For example:

I was denied points for taking nutrition, washing and bathing and dressing and undressing based on the fact I have children. More specifically that I feed them lunch and change nappies.
However at my tribunal we explained in detail that I do not feed the children; my partner makes their lunch before he leaves and comes home at lunch time every single day. This is also when he does the nappies for our toddler, and when I was asked what happens if the toddler needs a change whilst he is not there, I had to admit that my toddler is left until my partner can help. This was a very difficult and shameful thing to have to say, but it was the truth. And they completely lied about both things and used this to deny me points.

To further support the denial of points surrounding washing and bathing, and dressing, it was repeatedly stated I drive a manual car. No mention was made of my difficulty and pain in doing this, and that the frequency is very low due to the pain, nor that my specific issues with either of those activities bear no resemblance to the maneuvers you make whilst driving (putting your arms above your head and reaching to your toes.)
They prioritised grip above everything else, repeatedly stating I removed my driving licence and held a crutch.

With regards to the moving about section I claim I can only repeatedly and reliably walk 20-50 meters. Their decision states I was witnessed walking 25 meters slowly with one crutch at my assessment and 20 meters with two crutches at my tribunal hearing. It then states "can walk a distance of 50 meters". It states nowhere that I was in too much pain to walk out of my tribunal hearing, and that my partner went and retrieved my wheelchair for me to use.
I do not understand how they can say I can walk more than 50 meters when I wasn't witnessed doing so, and couldn't even walk out. I had good medical evidence supporting my conditions and pain.

I explained how I was only able to go out to a group for my children to play once a fortnight, and that many times I would need a friend to come collect my children from the car park and watch over them for me as I wasn't able to face being around people. I stated I needed support from my partner in planning this journey for 24 hours beforehand, and support via text whilst going. However on occasion still turned back as I couldn't make it.
The summary states I go to this group regularly which was the reason given for zero points on meeting people and planning a journey.

I shan't go into the other descriptors such as budgetting because you can probably guess it's all the same "has no cognitive impairment" stuff, even though I gave good reasons why I am incapable of opening post or checking my online bank due to symptoms of my bpd.


The summary of the hearing came with a typed version and handwritten notes. I cannot read the handwriting so I am not sure how much of what was taken down at the time is factually correct, but the typed summary is not. I don't know if the two correlate to each other, and what would happen if it suggests they don't. Is it worth me trying to decipher the handwriting? I know only an error of law can overturn a tribunal's decision but I don't know what that means.


I just don't know what to do at this point. I am not very well so slip into suicidal thoughts without careful pacing and management. I am desperate to not leave my children without a mother so do as much as I can, but am severely limited. Going to the assessment will mean days before, and after, where I will be fighting the physical pain I feel from the anxiety and my bpd symptoms, and possibly fighting suicidal thoughts. I am livid I have to be put through this, and if I cancel this coming appointment due to being too unwell to go, then I don't get another chance. Ludicrous seeing as they scored me nothing for going out and about or meeting people.

Has anyone experienced anything like this? The charity were shocked I was refused at tribunal. I was hoping for a representative to come with me, but for reasons beyond my control it was not possible. Does anyone have any advice?

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Failed tribunal - lies, so is there any point? :( 2 weeks 2 days ago #194610

Hi and Welcome to the forum, you might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explains where everything is

Welcome to Benefits and Work

What a nightmare for you!

You can only take the initial decision further if you can show an 'Error in Law' during the tribunal. You have only 1 month from the date of the Statement of Reasons in which to lodge your request for this to be sent to the Upper Tier Tribunal. I am afraid we cannot really help you with this, you will need to see a welfare specialist.

All I can suggest for your current claim is to have a good look at our PIP guide so that you understand the criteria against which you are being assessed. The guide also explains 'Reliability' in detail.

May I suggest that you bookmark/favourite this on your web browser now so that you can find it easily in future? This will allow you to return with further questions or comments about your PIP without having to start a new topic each time. We ask members to keep everything relating to the same claim in one topic as it helps us enormously - and I hope you will find it useful too :)

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Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last Edit: by Mrs Hurtyback.

Failed tribunal - lies, so is there any point? :( 3 days 10 hours ago #195372

Thank you. I'm sorry for the delay in replying, I had to wait until I got paid.

I have only 11 days left before 1 month is up since the date on the letter from the tribunal. I've tried to contact the charity that helped me fill in the form, but they are very busy and I don't think an appeal to upper tribunals are their priority when there are so many people needing help with the earlier stages.

Do you have any advice for me please? I'm so scared I'm going to live my life after this fighting the injustice that I couldn't understand why they came to their decision based on what I told them and what I said. It even states to the tribunal that I "did not list what I disagreed with" regarding the initial decision, but I sent in nearly 20 detailed A4 pages for my mandatory consideration.

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Failed tribunal - lies, so is there any point? :( 3 days 10 hours ago #195373

Do you know where I might find a template letter as the first contact to appeal to the upper tribunal?

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Failed tribunal - lies, so is there any point? :( 3 days 7 hours ago #195415

NexivRed wrote: Thank you. I'm sorry for the delay in replying, I had to wait until I got paid.

I have only 11 days left before 1 month is up since the date on the letter from the tribunal. I've tried to contact the charity that helped me fill in the form, but they are very busy and I don't think an appeal to upper tribunals are their priority when there are so many people needing help with the earlier stages.

Do you have any advice for me please? I'm so scared I'm going to live my life after this fighting the injustice that I couldn't understand why they came to their decision based on what I told them and what I said. It even states to the tribunal that I "did not list what I disagreed with" regarding the initial decision, but I sent in nearly 20 detailed A4 pages for my mandatory consideration.


I'm afraid we cannot offer any advice on whether an Error has been made in the making of the Tribunal Decision, we would need to have access to all of the papers involved in your appeal.

Have a look at the following

What is an Error of Law?

Do an internet search for "welfare advice" with your postcode, town or county.

AS to making a new claim. you now understand the issues which resulted in your original claim being refused, if you can explain why these are incorrect or not applicable then consider making a new claim.

Gordon

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Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

Failed tribunal - lies, so is there any point? :( 3 days 1 hour ago #195460

Hi. I believe there are a few errors in law but I'm struggling to find any advice on how to format the letter to the upper tribunal. I found a link in the member's only guide which gave a web address listing many pdfs etc for upper tribunal or legal appeals, but none of them were to do with PIP.

I drafted out a letter to CAB, but the email address given on their website bounced it back so not sure where do go from there as my condition means I really struggle to use the telephone.

I've already made a new claim and attended the assessment for it, but I'm not hopeful seeing as my last claim has been an absolute sham.

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Moderators: bro58GordonMrs Hurtyback