- Posts: 30
× Members
Audio recorded Atos medicals
- Tilly
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
11 years 11 months ago - 11 years 11 months ago #85944 by Tilly
Audio recorded Atos medicals was created by Tilly
Hi all, sorry but I cant find the information about using the recording of your Atos medical as evidence at tribunal. I know i have read something about that and just cant find it. Thanks
Last edit: 11 years 11 months ago by slugsta.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51053
11 years 11 months ago #85952 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Re:Audio recorded Atos medicals
Tilly wrote:
As far as I am aware, no Social Security tribunal to date has involved the use of a recording, or transcript thereof.
You should not assume that this means that such evidence cannot be used, just that there is no example of it being done, although there is an example of an Employment tribunal where such evidence was admitted.
Up until recently, the recording of ESA Medicals was quite rare, I know of of only three prior to the recent changes, so there has been little opportunity for the case to be tested.
Is this a factual request or a "what if" question?
Gordon
There is no information on using a recording at a Tribunal at this time.Hi all, sorry but I cant find the information about using the recording of your Atos medical as evidence at tribunal. I know i have read something about that and just cant find it. Thanks
As far as I am aware, no Social Security tribunal to date has involved the use of a recording, or transcript thereof.
You should not assume that this means that such evidence cannot be used, just that there is no example of it being done, although there is an example of an Employment tribunal where such evidence was admitted.
Up until recently, the recording of ESA Medicals was quite rare, I know of of only three prior to the recent changes, so there has been little opportunity for the case to be tested.
Is this a factual request or a "what if" question?
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Jim Allison BSc, Inst LE, MBIM; MA (Consumer Protection & Social Welfare Law)
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 2076
11 years 11 months ago - 11 years 11 months ago #85953 by Jim Allison BSc, Inst LE, MBIM; MA (Consumer Protection & Social Welfare Law)
PLEASE READ THE SPOTLIGHTS AREA OF THE FORUM REGULARLY, OTHERWISE YOU MAY MISS OUT ON IMPORTANT INFORMATION. Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Jim Allison BSc, Inst LE, MBIM; MA (Consumer Protection & Social Welfare Law) on topic Re:Audio recorded Atos medicals
If you type 'recording medicals' where it says at the top right of the page 'Please Search before posting", that will bring up all posts on recording medicals.
See also, Steve Donnison's article in Benefits News Claimants secretly taping medicals: the DWP responds
Also, the DWP Fraud Team regularly covertly video record claimants and in some cases
present that evidence to a Tribunal. In my opinion, if an appellant had someone record them, then they also should be able to present it to a Tribunal. If not, that would breach the rules of Natural Justice
Perhaps Steve could consult with his wife Holi, who is a barrister on this and give a more definitive answer than mine.
See also, Steve Donnison's article in Benefits News Claimants secretly taping medicals: the DWP responds
Also, the DWP Fraud Team regularly covertly video record claimants and in some cases
present that evidence to a Tribunal. In my opinion, if an appellant had someone record them, then they also should be able to present it to a Tribunal. If not, that would breach the rules of Natural Justice
Perhaps Steve could consult with his wife Holi, who is a barrister on this and give a more definitive answer than mine.
PLEASE READ THE SPOTLIGHTS AREA OF THE FORUM REGULARLY, OTHERWISE YOU MAY MISS OUT ON IMPORTANT INFORMATION. Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 11 years 11 months ago by Jim Allison BSc, Inst LE, MBIM; MA (Consumer Protection & Social Welfare Law). Reason: Amended.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Tilly
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 30
11 years 11 months ago - 11 years 11 months ago #85967 by Tilly
Replied by Tilly on topic Re:Audio recorded Atos medicals
Thanks Gordon and Jim. I have a recording of my Atos medical. I was turned down for ESA (I lost my job because I have a chronic, incurable, progressive disease - Primary Biliary Cirrhosis, the symptoms of which are variable, fluctuating and worsen over time. I have compared what the DM states in the ESA 65 re what the Atos HCP reports from the medical to the recording of the medical and found some blatant contradictions. For example, I was asked by the Atos Nurse how long I spend on the computer in a day. I answered that I use a laptop and that will be around 3 hours over the course of a day and if I cant use it sitting at the desk I will use it in bed or on the sofa. I can be heard saying this on the recording yet this has been reported as "uses computer for 3 hours a day with short breaks"
I am qouting such things in my GL24 and intend to say that I will be submitting the audio recording of the Atos medical.
Thanks for the info. I think I might have read something in one of the B&W news briefings about DWP not accepting these recordings as evidence but that in no way prevents you from submitting the recording as evidence.
I am qouting such things in my GL24 and intend to say that I will be submitting the audio recording of the Atos medical.
Thanks for the info. I think I might have read something in one of the B&W news briefings about DWP not accepting these recordings as evidence but that in no way prevents you from submitting the recording as evidence.
Last edit: 11 years 11 months ago by Gordon.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51053
11 years 11 months ago #85978 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Re:Audio recorded Atos medicals
Tilly
I am assuming that this was a covert recording that you made during the medical.
I need to make you aware that whilst making the recording for your own purposes and use is legal, disclosing the recording to a third party, without the permission of the ATOS "doctor" may not be. You should therefore think carefully before using the recording, or even a transcript, as direct evidence to a Tribunal.
You should also consider that if you do make this information available, you must make all of the information available e.g. the whole recording. There may be things that you said during the medical, that you did not intend to say, or that could be taken in another way, that would allow the DWP to use the recording against you, in the same way as you intend to use it against them.
Gordon
I am assuming that this was a covert recording that you made during the medical.
I need to make you aware that whilst making the recording for your own purposes and use is legal, disclosing the recording to a third party, without the permission of the ATOS "doctor" may not be. You should therefore think carefully before using the recording, or even a transcript, as direct evidence to a Tribunal.
You should also consider that if you do make this information available, you must make all of the information available e.g. the whole recording. There may be things that you said during the medical, that you did not intend to say, or that could be taken in another way, that would allow the DWP to use the recording against you, in the same way as you intend to use it against them.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Tilly
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 30
11 years 11 months ago #85980 by Tilly
Replied by Tilly on topic Re:Audio recorded Atos medicals
Gordon, the medical was recorded by Atos at my request. I used the B&W template letter to request that my medical be recorded.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, jimmck, Chris