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Downgraded from SG to WRAG in 3 days!

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11 years 2 months ago - 11 years 2 months ago #97770 by Tabbycat
Downgraded from SG to WRAG in 3 days! was created by Tabbycat
I am being migrated from IB to ESA. I sent in my ESA50 and supporting medical evidence in October 2012 and had an Atos medical in November 2012. My disability is 42 years of severe erosive polyarticular rheumatoid arthirtis.

I received a telephone call last Wednesday afternoon from the Incapacity Migration Team telling me I was in the SG for 2 years, my money would stay the same and awarded 36 points. However, last Saturday a letter arrived from JCP stating I was in the WRAG! I telephoned JCP first thing yesterday, who said it looked like I was in SG by the amount of money I am being paid but the Incapacity Migration Team in Kilmarnock would call back to confirm. They called back saying I am definitely in the WRAG! I was devastated. I told them I intend to appeal.

I've sent off the B&W appeal letter today asking for the decision maker's reasons and evidence relied upon, together with Atos report and points score etc.

Just when I thought I was home and dry, I now have an appeal to prepare and face more months of uncertainty. Has anyone else experienced this apparent incompetence from DWP staff?

Also, why is it they send you a JCP leaflet INF1(JSA) when you're applying for ESA and not JSA? Is it another show of incompetence? It can't be a one off as someone I know with similar disabililities had that form sent to them too.
Last edit: 11 years 2 months ago by .

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11 years 2 months ago - 11 years 2 months ago #97776 by

Tabbycat wrote: I am being migrated from IB to ESA. I sent in my ESA50 and supporting medical evidence in October 2012 and had an Atos medical in November 2012. My disability is 42 years of severe erosive polyarticular rheumatoid arthirtis.

I received a telephone call last Wednesday afternoon from the Incapacity Migration Team telling me I was in the SG for 2 years, my money would stay the same and awarded 36 points. However, last Saturday a letter arrived from JCP stating I was in the WRAG! I telephoned JCP first thing yesterday, who said it looked like I was in SG by the amount of money I am being paid but the Incapacity Migration Team in Kilmarnock would call back to confirm. They called back saying I am definitely in the WRAG! I was devastated. I told them I intend to appeal.

I've sent off the B&W appeal letter today asking for the decision maker's reasons and evidence relied upon, together with Atos report and points score etc.

Just when I thought I was home and dry, I now have an appeal to prepare and face more months of uncertainty. Has anyone else experienced this apparent incompetence from DWP staff?

Also, why is it they send you a JCP leaflet INF1(JSA) when you're applying for ESA and not JSA? Is it another show of incompetence? It can't be a one off as someone I know with similar disabililities had that form sent to them too.


Hi Tc,

I am sorry to hear that you appear to be yet another victim of misinformation via a phone conversation. :(

I can recall a couple of members suffering similar scenarios.

The DWP do tend to send these JCP leaflets out with WRAG award notices, which says a lot really.

You could lodge a complaint regarding the misinformation, see :

Complaining to The DWP

You could also involve your M.P. : Contacting your MP

You do seem well informed, however you may find some of the information on Gordon's post from earlier on, helpful : www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?view=top...id=10&id=96659#97769

Please let us know how things progress. :)

bro58
Last edit: 11 years 2 months ago by . Reason: Corrected DWP link

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11 years 2 months ago - 11 years 2 months ago #97824 by Tabbycat
Replied by Tabbycat on topic Downgraded from SG to WRAG in 3 days!
Once again, many thanks Bro58 for your comments and advice.

I received a copy of the Atos medical report and Form LT54 today. Whilst the Atos medical report is fairly accurate, there is one glaring error which I believe is why I have been put in WRAG and not SG.

The nurse has stated in a number of paragraphs that she observed me consistently using a stick and walking very slowly 20 metres to the examination room. Further on under prognosis she states "I advise that work is unlikely in the longer term" and under reasons for the opinion given "the evidence suggests improvement is unlikely in the longer term. The specialist letter has been reviewed in completing this report".

However, she hasn't applied the SG descriptor "less than 50 metres" to get into the SG, but instead stated "can't mobilise more than 100 metres"! In my ESA50 I put I can't walk more than 40 metres without severe pain and discomfort.

The DM's reasons for decision is, I take it, the LT54 which states "having considered the available evidence I determined scored at least 15 points and has limited capability for work - WRAG" The DM obviously hasn't considered all the evidence properly otherwise they would have picked up that although the medical expert says I can't work again, has taken my consultant's evidence, they have overlooked the above contradictory error regarding how many metres I can/can't walk.

This contradiction and misrepresentation by the Atos nurse will form the basis of my appeal which I shall prepare myself but take to my MP to make a formal complaint against DWP, JCP and Ian Duncan Smith. A similar scenario happened last year to a friend and he ended up going down the MP route too - successfully!
Last edit: 11 years 2 months ago by Gordon.
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11 years 2 months ago #97829 by Gordon
Replied by Gordon on topic Downgraded from SG to WRAG in 3 days!

Tabbycat wrote: Once again, many thanks Bro58 for your comments and advice.

I received a copy of the Atos medical report and Form LT54 today. Whilst the Atos medical report is fairly accurate, there is one glaring error which I believe is why I have been put in WRAG and not SG.

The nurse has stated in a number of paragraphs that she observed me consistently using a stick and walking very slowly 20 metres to the examination room. Further on under prognosis she states "I advise that work is unlikely in the longer term" and under reasons for the opinion given "the evidence suggests improvement is unlikely in the longer term. The specialist letter has been reviewed in completing this report".

However, she hasn't applied the SG descriptor "less than 50 metres" to get into the SG, but instead stated "can't mobilise more than 100 metres"! In my ESA50 I put I can't walk more than 40 metres without severe pain and discomfort.

The DM's reasons for decision is, I take it, the LT54 which states "having considered the available evidence I determined scored at least 15 points and has limited capability for work - WRAG" The DM obviously hasn't considered all the evidence properly otherwise they would have picked up that although the medical expert says I can't work again, has taken my consultant's evidence, they have overlooked the above contradictory error regarding how many metres I can/can't walk.

This contradiction and misrepresentation by the Atos nurse will form the basis of my appeal which I shall prepare myself but take to my MP to make a formal complaint against DWP, JCP and Ian Duncan Smith. A similar scenario happened last year to a friend and he ended up going down the MP route too - successfully!


A couple of points for your to consider.

The ATOS HCP is stating an opinion that you cannot mobilise more than 100m, this will be based on the distance they saw you walk (see below), but also the manner of your walking (e.g. speed and gait), which could result in them believing that you could walk further, you can obviously disagree.

Secondly, and more importantly, the mobilising test is not just a walking test, it also consider your ability to propel a manual wheelchair over equivalent distances. You do not need to use a wheelchair or even own one for it to be considered, however, the usage must be reasonable, so for example; if you have upper body problems, the usage may not be resoanable.

So, they may agree with you that you cannot walk more than 40m, but believe you could propel a wheelchair upto 100m.

Please be aware of the following if you still intending to appeal.

Is there any risk to challenging a decision?

How long do I have to appeal?

How to submit an appeal

Qualifying for the Support Group

Disability Rights UK Factsheet - Appeals and reconsiderations

12 Month Limit for ESA(CB)

Do I have to attend WFIs while I appeal?

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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11 years 2 months ago - 11 years 2 months ago #97840 by Tabbycat
Replied by Tabbycat on topic Downgraded from SG to WRAG in 3 days!
Thanks Gordon, but I think they will know I can't use a manual wheelchair. Sorry, I should have mentioned this before.

Atos state they saw me mobilise 20 metres, very slowly and this was consistent. The manual wheelchair they know I am unable to propel. I included this in my ESA50 - detailing the occasions when I have had to use a wheelchair (hip joint removed & neurosurgery on cervical spine) and upper limbs requiring replacement elbows and shoulders etc. so someone had to push me in it.

Looking at it another way, Atos are saying I am unfit to do any work now or at any time in the future and yet think I can walk up to 100 metres without severe pain and discomfort but have only seen me walk 20 metres very slowly. My Rheumatologist's letter told them my disease significantly affects my mobility and I suffer pain, fatigue and stiffness on a daily basis.

Atos also annoy me the way they refer to my disease as "arthritis". Rheumatoid arthritis or rheumatoid disease, is a systemic disease affecting joints, soft tissure and vital organs and is far removed from osteoarthritis/wear and tear. Then they call themselves "medical professionals"!

Aargh!!!!
Last edit: 11 years 2 months ago by Gordon.

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11 years 2 months ago #97846 by Gordon
Replied by Gordon on topic Downgraded from SG to WRAG in 3 days!

Tabbycat wrote: Thanks Gordon, but I think they will know I can't use a manual wheelchair. Sorry, I should have mentioned this before.

Atos state they saw me mobilise 20 metres, very slowly and this was consistent. The manual wheelchair they know I am unable to propel. I included this in my ESA50 - detailing the occasions when I have had to use a wheelchair (hip joint removed & neurosurgery on cervical spine) and upper limbs requiring replacement elbows and shoulders etc. so someone had to push me in it.

Looking at it another way, Atos are saying I am unfit to do any work now or at any time in the future and yet think I can walk up to 100 metres without severe pain and discomfort but have only seen me walk 20 metres very slowly. My Rheumatologist's letter told them my disease significantly affects my mobility and I suffer pain, fatigue and stiffness on a daily basis.

Atos also annoy me the way they refer to my disease as "arthritis". Rheumatoid arthritis or rheumatoid disease, is a systemic disease affecting joints, soft tissure and vital organs and is far removed from osteoarthritis/wear and tear. Then they call themselves "medical professionals"!

Aargh!!!!


Unfortunately, ATOS make some significant assumptions when it comes to walking. Two quotes from the WCA Handbook

The method of travel to the Examination Centre is relevant. You are likely, from local knowledge, to know the distance from the bus station to the examination centre. Record the distance, time taken, the number of rests required, and the lengths of the rest periods.

Bear in mind that a person who can easily manage around the house and garden is unlikely to be limited to mobility of less than 200 metres; a person who can mobilise around a shopping centre/supermarket is unlikely to be limited to mobility of less than 800 metres although consideration must be given to the speed of walking, stops and pauses etc. Someone who is able only to move around within their home is unlikely to manage 200m.


So you should also think about how you answered some of the questions during the interview.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

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