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PIP - ATOS/DWP and the Question of Trust
- Augustus
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7 years 3 months ago #178558 by Augustus
PIP - ATOS/DWP and the Question of Trust was created by Augustus
Good Afternoon
I had an PIP assessment last month and have received the medical report PA4. It is clear to me that the assessor has misconstrued a lot and some of the outcomes to questions put to me are stated the opposite of what happened.
We are told to be positive, but how is that possible when the essential element of trust is missing? In my case, it is impossible to believe that the assessor made so many "mistakes". Yet what can you say in an appeal or MR if it is your word against theirs?
And even when you get your case across, the descriptors are worded so as one might easily misunderstand. For example, if you can't do a task per se, and there is a descriptor for it, there seem to be assessors who will not choose that, but go for a lower scoring one whose text merely says "getting help with the task."
I read recently read on a thread that someone who complained after they thought the assessor had lied has now been told they will be re-re-assessed. In other words, another medical interview soon after. Are there circumstances where this can be challenged? Would asking MP intervention help or hinder?
Is the best strategy to wipe out all the anger and irritation and just get on with saying how the effects of one's conditions match descriptor x etc?
But how do you get across clear errors in the medical report? Errors which lead to no points?
When it is your word against theirs, are you risking a new assessment interview if you complain in this way?
And for the future, if I wanted to record my medical, does ATOS have the right to refuse this? In that case, what to do?
In a nutshell, there should be an element of trusts but sadly, this has gone.
Grateful for any guidance
A
I had an PIP assessment last month and have received the medical report PA4. It is clear to me that the assessor has misconstrued a lot and some of the outcomes to questions put to me are stated the opposite of what happened.
We are told to be positive, but how is that possible when the essential element of trust is missing? In my case, it is impossible to believe that the assessor made so many "mistakes". Yet what can you say in an appeal or MR if it is your word against theirs?
And even when you get your case across, the descriptors are worded so as one might easily misunderstand. For example, if you can't do a task per se, and there is a descriptor for it, there seem to be assessors who will not choose that, but go for a lower scoring one whose text merely says "getting help with the task."
I read recently read on a thread that someone who complained after they thought the assessor had lied has now been told they will be re-re-assessed. In other words, another medical interview soon after. Are there circumstances where this can be challenged? Would asking MP intervention help or hinder?
Is the best strategy to wipe out all the anger and irritation and just get on with saying how the effects of one's conditions match descriptor x etc?
But how do you get across clear errors in the medical report? Errors which lead to no points?
When it is your word against theirs, are you risking a new assessment interview if you complain in this way?
And for the future, if I wanted to record my medical, does ATOS have the right to refuse this? In that case, what to do?
In a nutshell, there should be an element of trusts but sadly, this has gone.
Grateful for any guidance
A
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- glennamy
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7 years 3 months ago #178584 by glennamy
Replied by glennamy on topic PIP - ATOS/DWP and the Question of Trust
The same happened to me, I complained to ATOS about the report and the false data recorded and assumptions made by the PIP assessor and just got a standard reply.
I have followed all the processes, greatly helped by the B&W guides and I am now at PIP appeal status awaiting a court date.
I refuse to let them do this to me, it is not a quick procedure but you should not give up.
Good luck!
I have followed all the processes, greatly helped by the B&W guides and I am now at PIP appeal status awaiting a court date.
I refuse to let them do this to me, it is not a quick procedure but you should not give up.
Good luck!
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- Gordon
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7 years 3 months ago #178587 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP - ATOS/DWP and the Question of Trust
Augustus
This is about winning the war not necessarily individual battles.
Our advice has always been to show that you meet the criteria for an award first and to deal with the assessment report second. It is very difficult to overturn the contents of the report, the DWP will assume that it is correct unless the claimant can show that there are fundamental problems with it, the issues that you mention in your post would not be sufficient to do this, however as you have seen, even if they did then the most likely result of this is that a new assessment is required.
Decisions for ESA and PIP require that there be a medical opinion on the claimant meeting the criteria based on their current conditions and limitations, if the report that provides that recommendation is found to be flawed then the Decision can only be made if a new report is produced, in the majority of cases this means a new assessment.
In explaining why you cannot complete an activity and in particular for PIP, it is not enough to explain why you cannot do it, you must also explain why an aid or help from another person would not enable you to do so.
Doing this gives you the opportunity to refer back to the assessment report and show that areas of it are inconsistent with your problems. So if you have explained why someone helping you would not allow you to complete the activity you can refer back to where the assessor has said it would to show that their opinion is incorrect.
Lastly, although we do regularly see members overturn the Decision at the MR stage, you do need to bear in mind that this is unusual and that the rate of revision at MR is very low, the rate at appeal is significantly higher and is currently in excess of 60% for PIP.
Gordon
This is about winning the war not necessarily individual battles.
Our advice has always been to show that you meet the criteria for an award first and to deal with the assessment report second. It is very difficult to overturn the contents of the report, the DWP will assume that it is correct unless the claimant can show that there are fundamental problems with it, the issues that you mention in your post would not be sufficient to do this, however as you have seen, even if they did then the most likely result of this is that a new assessment is required.
Decisions for ESA and PIP require that there be a medical opinion on the claimant meeting the criteria based on their current conditions and limitations, if the report that provides that recommendation is found to be flawed then the Decision can only be made if a new report is produced, in the majority of cases this means a new assessment.
In explaining why you cannot complete an activity and in particular for PIP, it is not enough to explain why you cannot do it, you must also explain why an aid or help from another person would not enable you to do so.
Doing this gives you the opportunity to refer back to the assessment report and show that areas of it are inconsistent with your problems. So if you have explained why someone helping you would not allow you to complete the activity you can refer back to where the assessor has said it would to show that their opinion is incorrect.
Lastly, although we do regularly see members overturn the Decision at the MR stage, you do need to bear in mind that this is unusual and that the rate of revision at MR is very low, the rate at appeal is significantly higher and is currently in excess of 60% for PIP.
Gordon
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- Augustus
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7 years 3 months ago #178644 by Augustus
Replied by Augustus on topic PIP - ATOS/DWP and the Question of Trust
For me it was even worse. ATOS gave me a shorter award. Guess what? The DWP decision maker actually did their job, looked at the file, and in their note to me about what they had done, said they had changed the points and given me a longer award.
But they did nothing of the kind! Decision was identical to ATOS report. Mistake? Who knows, but only a MR can resolve this apparently.
But they did nothing of the kind! Decision was identical to ATOS report. Mistake? Who knows, but only a MR can resolve this apparently.
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- Augustus
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7 years 3 months ago #178645 by Augustus
Replied by Augustus on topic PIP - ATOS/DWP and the Question of Trust
Gordon
I think it is crucial where you said in your reply:
". Decisions for ESA and PIP require that there be a medical opinion on the claimant meeting the criteria based on their current conditions and limitations."
Do they actually work in a "current" bubble when reviewing a claim, and not at least reviewing past conditions/assessments? Is that what the law requires or just their modus operandi? Because if you are getting higher rate PIP etc, or ESA support group, and it is downgraded or shortened without proper evidence of an improvement, isn't that just wssting everybody's time? Ours, the DWP MR people, and tbe Appeals service etc?
Is there at least the clear suscpicion that ATOS has targets to meet in terms of cutting the number of awards? I mean, the evidence used to justify in my case was flimsy indeed and i am at a loss to understand how the law can allow for so much supposition to be accepted as valid evidence and conclusion.
A
I think it is crucial where you said in your reply:
". Decisions for ESA and PIP require that there be a medical opinion on the claimant meeting the criteria based on their current conditions and limitations."
Do they actually work in a "current" bubble when reviewing a claim, and not at least reviewing past conditions/assessments? Is that what the law requires or just their modus operandi? Because if you are getting higher rate PIP etc, or ESA support group, and it is downgraded or shortened without proper evidence of an improvement, isn't that just wssting everybody's time? Ours, the DWP MR people, and tbe Appeals service etc?
Is there at least the clear suscpicion that ATOS has targets to meet in terms of cutting the number of awards? I mean, the evidence used to justify in my case was flimsy indeed and i am at a loss to understand how the law can allow for so much supposition to be accepted as valid evidence and conclusion.
A
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- Gordon
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7 years 3 months ago #178690 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP - ATOS/DWP and the Question of Trust
August
Recent Upper Tribunal Decisions have re-affirmed that the DWP should be looking at previous awards before they make a Decision, but they will still place the most emphasis on the current assessment, it's incorrect but the reality is that it is something that claimants need to manage.
As to the Assessment Providers having targets, it would be political suicide for any government to do this.
Gordon
Recent Upper Tribunal Decisions have re-affirmed that the DWP should be looking at previous awards before they make a Decision, but they will still place the most emphasis on the current assessment, it's incorrect but the reality is that it is something that claimants need to manage.
As to the Assessment Providers having targets, it would be political suicide for any government to do this.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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