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MR Outcome PIP Denied 0 Pts Next step appeal
- NorthEastGuy
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1 year 9 months ago #278555 by NorthEastGuy
MR Outcome PIP Denied 0 Pts Next step appeal was created by NorthEastGuy
Hi
I've received my outcome of my MR dated Last week of March 2023. I will be appealing this. I got two copies of the letter and the letter said that I have 0 points in all sections. Naturally I disagree with this which is why I applied for PIP. I have used the guides on these pages throughout and I intended to appeal by referencing the points they made in the MR Outcome letter, however they didn't make any which has flummoxed me a bit. The original assessment at least attempted to explain why they felt I didn't qualify. I sent back two consultant letters and 26 pages of evidence and a witness statement explaining my difficulties and challenges with each area of the original assessment. I have a recording of my original assessment also which will also demonstrate why the initial assessment is wrong which I intend to send.
The response I have been sent is as follows and appears to be a basic template. The questions I have are Is this typical in this situation? or do they usually attempt to give more information? How and when do I send extra evidence? I have set up an online account to appeal and will use the guides on here to help me, does anyone have any more advice? Grateful for any response or advice, Thanks in advance, Text of my MR outcome below:
"Thank you for telling us how your health conditions affect you.
We have used what you told us and all of the available evidence to make our decision. Personal Independence Payment is based on your ability to carry out a number of activities in a safe way on a regular basis. PIP is not awarded for having certain health conditions. We would like to tell you what is required for each of these levels of help. To need an aid, a device must be needed to help you complete this activity. To need prompting, another person would be needed to help you to manage this activity. To need assistance, another person would need to physically help you including doing some, but not all, of the activity. To need supervision, another person must be with you all the time while you are completing the activity to ensure your safety. The activity of going out does not cover your physical ability to walk, it considers your mental or sensory ability to plan and follow a route and how much distress going out would cause. The activity of moving around considers your physical ability to stand and then move without severe discomfort, such as breathlessness, pain or fatigue in a safe and timely manner. After reviewing all the available information gathered, including the assessment report and decision made on 19 December 2022 we have decided the evidence indicates you have the ability to carry out the daily living and mobility activities used to assess eligibility for PIP to an acceptable standard. In making this decision we have considered your needs on the majority of days"
I've received my outcome of my MR dated Last week of March 2023. I will be appealing this. I got two copies of the letter and the letter said that I have 0 points in all sections. Naturally I disagree with this which is why I applied for PIP. I have used the guides on these pages throughout and I intended to appeal by referencing the points they made in the MR Outcome letter, however they didn't make any which has flummoxed me a bit. The original assessment at least attempted to explain why they felt I didn't qualify. I sent back two consultant letters and 26 pages of evidence and a witness statement explaining my difficulties and challenges with each area of the original assessment. I have a recording of my original assessment also which will also demonstrate why the initial assessment is wrong which I intend to send.
The response I have been sent is as follows and appears to be a basic template. The questions I have are Is this typical in this situation? or do they usually attempt to give more information? How and when do I send extra evidence? I have set up an online account to appeal and will use the guides on here to help me, does anyone have any more advice? Grateful for any response or advice, Thanks in advance, Text of my MR outcome below:
"Thank you for telling us how your health conditions affect you.
We have used what you told us and all of the available evidence to make our decision. Personal Independence Payment is based on your ability to carry out a number of activities in a safe way on a regular basis. PIP is not awarded for having certain health conditions. We would like to tell you what is required for each of these levels of help. To need an aid, a device must be needed to help you complete this activity. To need prompting, another person would be needed to help you to manage this activity. To need assistance, another person would need to physically help you including doing some, but not all, of the activity. To need supervision, another person must be with you all the time while you are completing the activity to ensure your safety. The activity of going out does not cover your physical ability to walk, it considers your mental or sensory ability to plan and follow a route and how much distress going out would cause. The activity of moving around considers your physical ability to stand and then move without severe discomfort, such as breathlessness, pain or fatigue in a safe and timely manner. After reviewing all the available information gathered, including the assessment report and decision made on 19 December 2022 we have decided the evidence indicates you have the ability to carry out the daily living and mobility activities used to assess eligibility for PIP to an acceptable standard. In making this decision we have considered your needs on the majority of days"
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- Gary
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1 year 9 months ago #278578 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic MR Outcome PIP Denied 0 Pts Next step appeal
Hi NorthEastGuy
You are not alone to get zero points from both the initial claim and a MR.
I have done 5 appeals so far this year, all 5 claimants were awarded zero points in their initial claim and zero points when they applied for a MR.
The first thing you need to do is get a copy of the assessors report called a PA4.
When you have the assessors report you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and you will now be able to argue against them.
I usually use a highlighter to highlight any inaccuracies, once you have gone through the report you then set out in a submission why you are appealing the decision, go through each descriptor one at a time why you disagree with the assessor, try and match it with any supporting documents you may have sent in.
Understand that the assessor is offering an opinion when they say 'in my opinion' you can do the PIP activities, tackling these head-on is unlikely to be successful, you need to show that the basis of that opinion is founded on incorrect information, so try and refer to your evidence to undermine what they have said., remember they are just an opinion which is not based on fact.
Also, try and stick to issues that lead to your scoring points, I often hear members referring to the assessors spelling, as an example, whilst it may show a lack of professionalism, raising it as an issue isn't going to help you get an award.
Your primary task is to show that you meet the criteria, there are many reasons you may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation;
Lastly, make sure that you understand the criteria that you are being assessed against you can put the best case forward that is possible but you won't score points if you do not meet the PIP Descriptors.
Have a look at our PIP MR & Appeal guide; benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/pip
If you do a good submission it will help you at the tribunal.
When you have a better idea of the issues with your claim, come back to the forum and we will do our best to help.
Gary
You are not alone to get zero points from both the initial claim and a MR.
I have done 5 appeals so far this year, all 5 claimants were awarded zero points in their initial claim and zero points when they applied for a MR.
The first thing you need to do is get a copy of the assessors report called a PA4.
When you have the assessors report you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and you will now be able to argue against them.
I usually use a highlighter to highlight any inaccuracies, once you have gone through the report you then set out in a submission why you are appealing the decision, go through each descriptor one at a time why you disagree with the assessor, try and match it with any supporting documents you may have sent in.
Understand that the assessor is offering an opinion when they say 'in my opinion' you can do the PIP activities, tackling these head-on is unlikely to be successful, you need to show that the basis of that opinion is founded on incorrect information, so try and refer to your evidence to undermine what they have said., remember they are just an opinion which is not based on fact.
Also, try and stick to issues that lead to your scoring points, I often hear members referring to the assessors spelling, as an example, whilst it may show a lack of professionalism, raising it as an issue isn't going to help you get an award.
Your primary task is to show that you meet the criteria, there are many reasons you may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation;
Lastly, make sure that you understand the criteria that you are being assessed against you can put the best case forward that is possible but you won't score points if you do not meet the PIP Descriptors.
Have a look at our PIP MR & Appeal guide; benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/pip
If you do a good submission it will help you at the tribunal.
When you have a better idea of the issues with your claim, come back to the forum and we will do our best to help.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: greekqueen, NorthEastGuy
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- NorthEastGuy
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1 year 9 months ago #278584 by NorthEastGuy
Replied by NorthEastGuy on topic MR Outcome PIP Denied 0 Pts Next step appeal
Hi
Thanks for that, I got the PA4 from my initial assessment. One question I have is a new PA4 created based on my mandatory reconsideration appeal evidence. or is there only one PA4?
Also at what point would I send any additional evidence. Such as evidence that I originally sent in that the DWP may claim to have not received as they don't appear to have used it. Also I recorded all my calls how and when will I provide those? Any additional help is appreciated.
Thank you
Thanks for that, I got the PA4 from my initial assessment. One question I have is a new PA4 created based on my mandatory reconsideration appeal evidence. or is there only one PA4?
Also at what point would I send any additional evidence. Such as evidence that I originally sent in that the DWP may claim to have not received as they don't appear to have used it. Also I recorded all my calls how and when will I provide those? Any additional help is appreciated.
Thank you
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- Gary
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1 year 9 months ago #278605 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic MR Outcome PIP Denied 0 Pts Next step appeal
Hi NorthEastGuy
The answer is no, an assessors report is created whn you have an assessment, When you ask for a MR your PA4 should be looked at by a different decision maker using the original evidence sent in and any new supporting documents.
When you check the PA4 it should list what documents were used in looking at your claim. If your supporting documents are not listed then send in another copy when you send in your CRMR1 form. If you do a telephone MR, you will be asked if you have any further supporting documents, at that point you can inform what additional supporting documents you have.
In regards to your recorded phone calls, I am not sure in what context you would use them?
Gary
The answer is no, an assessors report is created whn you have an assessment, When you ask for a MR your PA4 should be looked at by a different decision maker using the original evidence sent in and any new supporting documents.
When you check the PA4 it should list what documents were used in looking at your claim. If your supporting documents are not listed then send in another copy when you send in your CRMR1 form. If you do a telephone MR, you will be asked if you have any further supporting documents, at that point you can inform what additional supporting documents you have.
In regards to your recorded phone calls, I am not sure in what context you would use them?
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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1 year 9 months ago #278614 by NorthEastGuy
Replied by NorthEastGuy on topic MR Outcome PIP Denied 0 Pts Next step appeal
Hi
Maybe I wasn't clear about the stage I am at, I've already completed the MR and had the MR outcome which is 0 points after requesting the PA4 and using the guide on here to argue my case on each point within the report. It was pretty comprehensive I feel and followed the guideline son this site. I sent all my evidence again for the second decision maker, so they have everything the first one did. They have decided 0 points and sent the very basic response that is in my first post. I am now at Tribunal stage.
So my question is mainly at which point do I send in any evidence because I am concerned they may say they didn't get what I sent originally or for the MR. I kept copies and also sent them recorded delivery so is there a point where I get sent all the evidence the DWP I have and where I can send in stuff that I think they have lost/deliberately not included? . In terms of my recorded calls these would be of the assessment I had. I understand I may need to send a transcription as it will show the assessor didn't listen to what I said. Do I send the evidence when lodging the tribunal or do I do it at a certain stage? As I have heard that you get some sort of bundle of evidence first?
Also as my MR was pretty detailed outlining each point, when lodging the tribunal do I go into as much detail?
Apologies for all the questions / any help is appreciated.
Maybe I wasn't clear about the stage I am at, I've already completed the MR and had the MR outcome which is 0 points after requesting the PA4 and using the guide on here to argue my case on each point within the report. It was pretty comprehensive I feel and followed the guideline son this site. I sent all my evidence again for the second decision maker, so they have everything the first one did. They have decided 0 points and sent the very basic response that is in my first post. I am now at Tribunal stage.
So my question is mainly at which point do I send in any evidence because I am concerned they may say they didn't get what I sent originally or for the MR. I kept copies and also sent them recorded delivery so is there a point where I get sent all the evidence the DWP I have and where I can send in stuff that I think they have lost/deliberately not included? . In terms of my recorded calls these would be of the assessment I had. I understand I may need to send a transcription as it will show the assessor didn't listen to what I said. Do I send the evidence when lodging the tribunal or do I do it at a certain stage? As I have heard that you get some sort of bundle of evidence first?
Also as my MR was pretty detailed outlining each point, when lodging the tribunal do I go into as much detail?
Apologies for all the questions / any help is appreciated.
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- Gordon
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1 year 9 months ago #278621 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic MR Outcome PIP Denied 0 Pts Next step appeal
NorthEastGuy
When you make your appeal, you will first receive an acknowledgement from the Tribunal Service, at the same time they will forward your request to the DWP, they will have one month to send you and the TS their evidence bundle.
This bundle will contain all of the documents that were used in making the original Decision and the MR, from this you will be able to see whether the evidence you submitted was used, if it is not in the bundle then it wasn't.
If it was used then you do not need to send it again, if not then you can submit it again, with a note pointing out that it was previously provided to the DWP as part of your submission for the appeal. The TS will send you (and the DWP) a copy of everything that is sent to them, this will form the bundle that is used by the panel when they look at your claim.
Gordon
When you make your appeal, you will first receive an acknowledgement from the Tribunal Service, at the same time they will forward your request to the DWP, they will have one month to send you and the TS their evidence bundle.
This bundle will contain all of the documents that were used in making the original Decision and the MR, from this you will be able to see whether the evidence you submitted was used, if it is not in the bundle then it wasn't.
If it was used then you do not need to send it again, if not then you can submit it again, with a note pointing out that it was previously provided to the DWP as part of your submission for the appeal. The TS will send you (and the DWP) a copy of everything that is sent to them, this will form the bundle that is used by the panel when they look at your claim.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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