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TOPIC: PIP Mand Rec - could I lose the lot?

PIP Mand Rec - could I lose the lot? 5 months 1 day ago #189484

Hello Gordon: I posted earlier that my sis at review has maintained her enhanced DL but lost standard Mob, with only 4 pts. As she is half-way, points-wise, to standard Mob it seems very appropriate to request MR. She's got enhanced DL 'til 2020 - but is there potential for that to be reduced or lost on a Mobility MR? While I doubt it I'm guessing it could happen in principle, and I'd be mortified if in trying to get her Mob award back I lost her DL...

(She got 4 pts for:

"Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. "

but I believe she should have got either:

"For reasons other than psychological distress, cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid." 10 points.

or

"For reasons other than psychological distress, cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid." 12 points.

and also:

"Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided." 4 points.

So, she has got far fewer points here than I thought she would when I wrote her review submission with her, and I half expected her to move from standard to enhanced! Yet the DL score is broadly what I expected...

Thanks so much for any kind advice,

Marcus (member)

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PIP Mand Rec - could I lose the lot? 5 months 1 day ago #189515

Marcus

Without knowledge of her problems it's difficult to offer advice.

What did she score for last time?

The problem with the Descriptors you refer to (b) (& (e)) and (d) & (f) are that they are mutually exclusive, so the first thing you need to consider is which set you intend to argue for.

If her problems are to do with anxiety and psychological distress then (d) and (f) are effectively ruled out and you should be aiming for (e).

Conversely if you go for (d) and (f) then the reasons she qualifies must be due to her being unable to navigate a route successfully.

As to her walking, can your reasonably show that she cannot walk more than 200m on the majority of days.

An MR re-makes the Decision so the DWP do have the option of removing points from the DL component even if you just request a review of the Mobility one. It doesn't happen very often, we haven't seen it happen for months, but it does happen.

Gordon
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Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

PIP Mand Rec - could I lose the lot? 4 months 2 weeks ago #190272

Gordon wrote: Marcus

Without knowledge of her problems it's difficult to offer advice.

What did she score for last time?

The problem with the Descriptors you refer to (b) (& (e)) and (d) & (f) are that they are mutually exclusive, so the first thing you need to consider is which set you intend to argue for.

If her problems are to do with anxiety and psychological distress then (d) and (f) are effectively ruled out and you should be aiming for (e).

Conversely if you go for (d) and (f) then the reasons she qualifies must be due to her being unable to navigate a route successfully.

As to her walking, can your reasonably show that she cannot walk more than 200m on the majority of days.

An MR re-makes the Decision so the DWP do have the option of removing points from the DL component even if you just request a review of the Mobility one. It doesn't happen very often, we haven't seen it happen for months, but it does happen.

Gordon

---

Gordon, many thanks for this. Re Mobility, she kept 4 pts for PLANNING AND FOLLOWING JOURNEYS: You need prompting...' but lost 4 pts for 'MOVING AROUND. You can stand and then move more...' as at review they state she can walk more than 200m

So my question is, with 4 Mob points now (and 4 taken), is it worth MR? I note your comment that no-one on the forum recently has LOST points at MR (and she has a 'buffer' of 4 pts for her enhanced DL.

Psychological illness aside, she has asthma, COPD, pelvic problems/endometriosis/incontinence: her initial award of standard MOB was related to breathlessness. At review she has had no change of diagnosis/medication/improvement in breathing (COPD is progressive); the face-to-face report simply states that she was observed to walk unproblematically at assessment (having gone by taxi and with her carer) and illogically concludes that she can walk over 200m without sig problem. I say illogically 'cos the walk she did at assessment was nothing near 200m so this conclusion does not follow from the evidence.

Any view appreciated,

Marcus (member)

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PIP Mand Rec - could I lose the lot? 4 months 2 weeks ago #190284

frmarcus

It's a decision that only she and you can make.

To score the extra points on the Going Out activity you are going to have to show that she cannot leave the house on her own. Can you do that? If she attended the assessment on her own this may be problematical.

To get the necessary points on the Moving Around activity you will need to show that her walking is restricted to less than 200m, which appears to be what was awarded last time.

In either case, you need to consider the likelihood of having to go to appeal over the matter, the DM will prefer the assessment report if they look at the Decision again and your arguments that her conditions are worse seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

A Tribunal panel will look at the evidence with far more balance, although you should still have a look at what you have already submitted.

Gordon

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Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

PIP Mand Rec - could I lose the lot? 4 months 3 days ago #191170

Hello Gordon: Cognizant of the occasional problems that arise when MR is requested, discussed in the forum, I did this, by letter followed by a call (with the month's deadline approaching). The letter hadn't been received/processed by the call date but the officer was helpful and offered to lodge the MR over the phone. I wrote the letter for my sister, the claimant, but of course couldn't make the call (and I live 300 m away so couldnt be with her).

One concern was that she may be interrogated as to why the MR, or even dissuaded from lodging it (this has happened, according to the forum), which she isn't up to dealing with, so I advised her to state simply that all details are in the letter (and, if nec, her MR must stand). In the event there was no difficulty and she wasn't asked why she was lodging.

So, on my experience, at least, I would encourage claimants not to be concerned about the call lodging MR, or checking that their letter requesting it has been received. Following Gordon's advice my sis recorded the date and time of the call and got the name of the officer spoken to... just in case.

Best wishes.
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PIP Mand Rec - could I lose the lot? 3 months 3 weeks ago #191961

Hello Gordon: My sis got her MR result today: no change (she lost her standard mobility at review). The (no doubt standard) letter rather foolishly states 'we can still pay you the enhanced rate of care'. Well, of course! It would be a bit rich if they lowered or withdrew entirely, with no basis whatsoever. I know technically they could. But the phraseology seems designed to make the claimant grateful that they didn't LOSE anything at MR, never mind failed to have it increased. This seems patronising.

Anyway, tribunal is the remaining option. My sis has an array of physical and psychological conditions and would, I think, find attendance at tribunal psychologically very difficult, even with my support. Although you advise that paper-based is very much a second-best, as I can do that entirely for her it's likely the only option, and still better than doing nothing (she has a buffer with enhanced care of 4 pts: I doubt she's in danger of reducing her care award...)

I'm grateful for any kind advice. Did I see that online tribunals could apply? Could I attend the tribunal in her place (she has frequent episodes of physical illness where she cannot leave her home due to pain and incontinence: good reasons for non-attendance)?

Final question: when DWP know a claimant has submitted appeal application, or perhaps indicates intention, may they look again at their MR or is it 'final'?

Many thanks,

Marcus

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