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TOPIC: PIP : So I'm being sent for another "medical"

PIP : So I'm being sent for another "medical" 5 months 4 weeks ago #203528

Well, I'm not sure if I did the right thing, but this is how it went.

I told the call handler I wanted to cancel the appointment and set another, because I wanted to get a doctor's letter, so I could get a home visit. Also because it wasn't the time of day I'd requested.

He said if I wanted a home visit, I'd have to answer a questionnaire over the phone, and after they'd assess my needs and maybe talk to my doctor and then decide. He told me that if I set a date for second appointment, I'd HAVE to attend it, or that was it, PIP cancelled.

I opted not to believe this and set a date in January instead, with an eye to cancelling when I get the doctor's letter...

It was a tough decision, I was getting put on the spot, and I didn't know if what I was being told was 100% correct. Unfortunately my decision making when I need to make a quick decision isn't always the best...

The reasons I decided to go against what I was being told were:

a) I was already feeling crappy, and didn't feel like answering a lot of questions over the phone. I generally hate doing anything over the phone, anyway. I felt I could make a better case by letter
b) I felt like I was being put on the spot and was being pressured into something. It didn't seem fair to be given this, more or less, ultimatum
c) I thought if I agreed, I was giving them full control of the outcome, they might not go to my doctor, or might ask her the questions that would suit them, not me, so they could refuse me.

So, have I screwed up, or did I do the right thing?

PIP : So I'm being sent for another "medical" 5 months 4 weeks ago #203537


You're OK this was a first appointment, but you will have to attend the new one unless a home assessment is granted, so you need to chase your GP for a letter.


PIP : So I'm being sent for another "medical" 4 months 1 week ago #206245

Well in the end they decided to reject my reasons for cancelling the second appointment, and have cancelled my PIP, in spite of my updated doctor's appointment stating it was unsuitable for me to travel the distance they were expecting and request they arrange a home visit.

So if I understand correctly, I now have 3 options, appeal, reapply, or both (I assuming I can reapply immediately).

Is there any disadvantages to letting the appeal go and just reapplying? Does a fresh application bias against you?

I can think of one reason to appeal, but it depends on how they work things out. Although I was only receiving standard mobility for PIP, I came close to scoring enough for standard daily living. I think with the changes to my condition in the mean time, which I highlighted on the PIP.1043/AR1, I think it would have been hard for them to deny me the extra points to gain this, this time round, which might give a motive as to why they've decided to behave like such... (considering the appeals process will probably end up costing more than the 22 quid a week they'll only probably be saving for a week or two).

My question is, if I'd had the assessment, and I'd gained enough points for daily living, would I have received the extra money from the date of the assessment (or maybe the time it was scored by the DWP decision maker?), or would it have been backdated to the time they sent out the PIP.1043 to me? If it's the latter, then I could be potentially missing out on quite a bit of backdated money if I don't appeal. Where as if it was the date of the assessment, I guess I would be only missing out on a week or so, if I didn't appeal, and the new assessment I was put through was fair and scored me the points.

Also, if I phone to make a new PIP application now, and the MR overturns the decision (considering their 80% target, unlikely, I know), or I go to tribunal and it gets overturned there, can I cancel the new PIP application, or would trying to cancel my new PIP application end up cancelling both the old and new claims and leave me with nothing, again?

I think I'll attempt to do the MR myself, but if that fails, I'll head to the Citizens Advice to see if they'll help me with the tribunal. Good idea?

With regards to details in the letter from the DWP, cancelling my PIP:

In the letter they've stated 'Independent Assessment Services tried to contact you several times and sent several SMS text messages for you rearrange yet no further contact was made by yourself' - this is, apparently in regards to AFTER i cancelled the 2nd appointment.

So, time line goes like this:
- I send a letter with my doctor's letter, asking for the 2nd appointment to be cancelled and a home visit to be arranged, 3 days before the appointment
- I phone the day before, to confirm I'm cancelling the appointment, woman on phone confirms they've received the letter. She tells me I can't now rearrange another appointment or home visit, and it'll go back to the DWP, they'll look at my reasons and decide whether to cancel my PIP or send it back to them, IAS (hopefully to make a home visit appointment). I believe this is the standard procedure.
- Apparently things now change, and IAS apparently make a flurry of attempts to contact me to rearrange the appointment, which I'm HIGHLY sceptical about.

With regards to the 'and sent several SMS text messages' this is either a miscommunication between IAS and the DWP, or one of them is blatantly lying. The only text messages I received were two reminders for the two appointments, the last one being before I made the phone call to cancel. No text messages were received after I made the cancellation phone call.

So someone at their end might well be lying, but can I prove it? Do IAS record logs of calls and sent text messages? And can I get access to this information for evidence?

Also, should I be doing a Subject Access Request? And will it give me this information? I'm not sure how to word it, though, do I request all documents going back to my PIP claim in 2015 to now?

It's harder to deny the 'tried to contact you several times' claim, if they are indeed, talking about phone calls (although it's a little ambiguous, no?), it may be true, it may not, as I tend to leave my phone off unless I'm phoning out, for more than one medical reason. I have issues with the phone, and generally have to prepare myself for a period before calling somewhere like IAS, never mind answering a call from them.

In fact in 2015 when I first applied for PIP I stated my preference was to be communicated to by post, because this. It's strongly looking like IAS have changed this instruction without my permission. If they were attempting to rearrange the appointment, they really should have been sending me another letter, in my opinion. Is there a requirement of PIP that my phone and I should be available at all times to take calls from them?

To me, there appears to have been some suspect goings on. I mean, if as I was told by the IAC call handler on the phone, when I confirmed the cancellation of my appointment, that it was procedure to pass it back to the DWP after a second cancellation, and as I understand it, that is standard procedure in this situation, why were IAS, after this, apparently desperately trying to contact me to rearrange when I had already told I couldn't? If I could rearrange, why wasn't this offer made by the woman when I made the cancellation phone call? Is it me, or is there a distinct reek of BS about this?
And that's without the missing text messages.

Hopefully these oddities would stand out to a tribunal judge, though.

Sorry it's a big post, but thanks in advance for any help with my questions.

PIP : So I'm being sent for another "medical" 4 months 1 week ago #206268


First of all understand that any appeal will solely be interested in whether you had Good Cause for not attending the assessment, no consideration of whether an award should be made or not will be made,

If you make a new claim, then it is exactly that, so a new claim form and if it is deemed to be required, a new invitation for a face to face assessment.

In this specific case an appeal will have limited effect on a new claim. If it is successful (see below), then it will simply reset the claim date to the day after your PIP award was closed, if it is not then then the date you make the new claim will be used. There is no wait period for making a new claim.

From above, appeals times are quite long at the moment and you could easily wait five or six months for a hearing, it could be quicker as the convening requirements for a appeal of this type are less than for an award.

The other issue you need to think about is what happens if your are required to attend another appointment at the Assessment Provider's office. If the appeal decides you had Good Cause for not attending then this would support a home assessment, but as I said above, your appeal may not be heard in time to make a difference to a new claim.


PIP : So I'm being sent for another "medical" 4 months 1 week ago #206295

Thanks Gordon. I think you're telling me that I don't have much to lose by submitting another claim ASAP.

I'd HOPE the new doctor's letter would be suffice for a home visit. It was suffice in 2015 (it's pretty much a carbon copy of that one with an updated date). I assume they've took exception because I've cancelled two appointments, and not that the letter is inadequate...although I think a similar situation occurred in 2015. So that's why I wonder why there's more behind it, this time.

Would you recommend maybe going to the Citizen's Advice before submitting the MR?


PIP : So I'm being sent for another "medical" 4 months 1 week ago #206312

qethite wrote: Would you recommend maybe going to the Citizen's Advice before submitting the MR?


It's always worth getting face to face advice if it is available, but as your appeal is about your reasons for not attending the CAB may be limited in the advice that they can give.

Moderators: bro58GordonMrs HurtybackIzzy1010LisaJenny Clarke