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No MH Engagement PIP and ESA

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4 years 1 month ago #255852 by raindaisy
No MH Engagement PIP and ESA was created by raindaisy
Hi
I have my own issues , with the whole DWP procedure . But I have a life long friend in need of help.
Ive offered to help in any I can .
He is 57 . MH on the floor . Due to childhood trauma, ( Father suicide) Child Abuse from Step Father and Mother. He had no schooling , in the 1970's, working as a builders laborer from the age of 13.
He experienced a serious virus , along with social issues and OCD in his 30's.
He completed shut down. Physically , and mentally...all the while looking totally healthy.
Because of his persona, he never has been offered or engaged with any physical assessment or MH assessment...he was told he " had a chemical imbalance fromwhich he was likely to recover" .... His life is naff..he suffers depression, social anxiety, anxiety, migraines, nerves, fatique. pain, muscle weakness, brain fog etc.....my beloved friend works flat out to support him. He has been on Incapcity Benefit, the CB ESA, then off CB ESA after 365 days, then back on ESA ( IR) in the SG , then in January 2020 , he was taken off ESA, failure to attend WRAG . He has no idea at what point he went into WRAG, looking at his papers, there was a cahnge in circs, Mum in Law died, Spouse went back to full time work. Kids left Full time Education.
I really dont know where to start. In my opinion, on the grounds of MH, he qualfies for some PIP and ESA.
He doesnt engage with MH . He does with GP. But part of his illness , he has OCD, lack of trust etc.....
Im inclined to make PIP claim ..again..failed numerous times in past ...and reapply for ESA,.
Currently age 57 for the last 13 months he has had no income what so ever, His MH and physical health has deteriorated to point of self harm and suicide.
His GP , has prescribed anti psychotic drugs ...but no referral has ever been suggested.
Any opinions, sign posting or help or advice would be welcome.
Thank You .

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4 years 1 month ago - 4 years 1 month ago #255854 by Catherine
Replied by Catherine on topic No MH Engagement PIP and ESA
Hello raindaisy,

Your friend is fortunate to have a friend like you!

As I read your post my heart was sinking. Many people with MH fail to engage with the MH services for all sorts of reasons, frequently as part of their condition. And it can then be so hard to convince the DWP of the reality of their lives. That is not to say it is not possible, but it is a battle.

However, I think the key to your friend’s success comes at the end of your post

“His GP has prescribed anti-psychotic drugs.”

There is your hard evidence. Hopefully his GP will write a supporting letter, and that is by the best way, but if that fails he can make a Subject Access Request (SAR) and get a copy of his medical records. He might receive quite a thick bundle and it is important to either pull out the relevant bits or put in the submission references to where he wants the Decision Maker to look. Have a look at my footnote for information about making a SAR.

So where do you start? A phone call to PIP to start the application process. Read our guides PIP resources and help him to complete the form. I don’t think it is really possible for anyone to successfully to it for themselves by themselves.

And apply for UC. Apply for UC This can be done online and is a fairly straight forward process. He will need to get a fit note (aka sick note) from his GP to say that he is not fit for work. (I am assuming that since he was previously in receipt of IR ESA he will qualify for this from a financial perspective.) UC will give him a base income after about 5 weeks.

He needs to make sure in his UC application that he makes it clear that the reason that he cannot work includes MH and suicidal ideation. After a while, probably about 3 months, he will be sent a UC50 form to complete, which is basically the same as the ESA form he has completed in the past. Again do read our guides on this so that you can help him in the best possible way. UC & ESA resources

As we know it is not a quick or easy process, but if you / he takes time, follows the advice in the guides I am hopeful that he will get both awards.

Once again, well done for being a friend in need.
Catherine


And a footnote about Subject Access Requests (SAR)

Making a Subject Access Request (SAR) :

SAR Form Download

From this page :

DWP Data Protection Policy

Or you can make the request in the form of a letter, as long as you make it clear that you are making a formal SAR under The Data Protection Act 1998.

Address the envelope : FAO The Data Controller, at the Benefits Office dealing with your PIP.

Write DPA 1998 SAR in front, top, left corner of envelope.

Once received, they have 40 calendar days to comply.

Sending Documents to the DWP.

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 4 years 1 month ago by Catherine.

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3 years 9 months ago #260032 by raindaisy
Replied by raindaisy on topic No MH Engagement PIP and ESA
Hi

Thank you for the above repsonse albeit a long time ago.

Ok I have completed a PIP form and it has been submitted.
His wife requested medical evidence from GP. Basically it pages of print outs of medications, appointments dates , on the surface it didnt look very helpful, but it did go back to 2007 and repeadtly states since : 'depressive disorder ' it does refer to his pain , tinititus etc . However I have completed the form in detail , how all his conditions effect his daily living , so fingers crossed. I also sent a full copy of the 30 pages to DWP with a cover letter repeating his mental illness is unspecified and because of his MH disorder he unable to engage etc.
Then a SARS went into the DWP .
So here is what happened from 2007 onwards He was on ESA , placed in the Support Group.
He was getting Contribution Based ESA.
There was Tax credits due to dependant. Wife works full time. Pays full rent and Council Tax .
In November 2019 His ESA was reviewed .
Form completed. ( badly )
Called for WCA. Nightmare.
Decision given in January 2020 . Nil points. Kicked off ESA. Payments stop.
I asked why they claimed UC. My friend said, they were told he had to be reassessed as the area was now under UC.
They completed this form that form, got UC account. But get zero UC. Her earnings are too high.
im not up with UC . So , He sent saw GP , again ( they were called in actually as I had drafted a letter from his wife) GP is 100% on board now . BUt wont write a letter as the " DWP will write to her".
UC50 now here. Im helping to complete it. BUT I know he wont UC because of her Income.
And now as he has not worked ( he is very ill) or had any income since January 2020 , will he qualify for National Insurance Contributions ?
Im tempted to get my friend to speak to GP again and ask for back dated sick note to confirm he has been ill, since he was kicked off ESA.
Is that even any option. ?
Cant download new style esa form , can only apply on line. He cant do it , i can do it for him , but from my computer , its been awful getting him on the phone, his dad died of covid in January, he has gone into crisis , sucidial and Ive managed to to get my friend to speak to DWP and get extension on his PIP , and UC50 ( not as helpful) .
Be good if you can sign post again, that im on the right path to complete UC50 and not new style ESA ?
what the hell do the DWP think they are doing to people??????
Im 26 years stuck in this system , as my OH is a young stroke survivor now terminal with heart failure , I have never know the process to be so dehumanising and degrading!
thanks in advance
RD

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3 years 9 months ago #260100 by Catherine
Replied by Catherine on topic No MH Engagement PIP and ESA
Hello Raindaisy,

Well done for getting the PIP form off with all the evidence.

There is no reason not to cover your options by applying for both UC and New Style ESA. Without knowing the full details of your friend’s NI history and family income it is not possible to say which, if either, he will qualify for. If you can only run one at a time I would start with the ESA one, since it is his recent NI history which is critical in establishing whether or not he is entitled to it.

I appreciate your problem in being faced with an online form but without your friend being able to help you on the phone. In such a position I think I would go through the form filling it in as accurately as possible, up to the point of submission. That way you will find out what the questions are, you can then speak directly to your friend to get the answers before returning to fill in the form for real.

I hope this helps, and when you come to fill in the UC50 form, don’t forget to have a look at our guides!
Catherine

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

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3 years 9 months ago #260197 by raindaisy
Replied by raindaisy on topic No MH Engagement PIP and ESA
Hi Thank you for your reply .

I have started an online claim off new style esa , unfortunately , it then means a telephone call and he completes over the phone! Not good for someone who doesnt do well on phones!

I am yet to complete the UC 50, its been like pulling teeth to communicate , but we are getting there and my friend , his wife and carer , is great help too.

I have been going through all the SARs, for UC and ESA .
Now in Novemeber 2019 , around the time of his WRA , the sysytem quotes " ESA Migration" My friend is adamant he was contacted by the DWP , told he had to be reassed as UC was coming in his area.
He attended WCA . Complete nightmare. Ive seen report, by SARs , awful, well you get the picture. But the reality was he was in complete meltdown and crying and distressed beyound belief. He given was zero points.
decsion was 6 January 2020. They were told to make claim for UC. No mention on sysytem of health and mental health or previous ESA , although my Friend said she told them.
They were awarded zero money . He has no income.
Then Covid hit - his daughter was in USA studying, he had a complete manic crisis breakdown to get her home, then lock down happened and they did not appeal.
My question is 1. He was on ESA (CB) Support Group was he given incorrect advice by the DWP and assessed incorrectly , ie he was in the support gropup? was this a back door assessment , zero points...now go claim UC?
2. I thinking a formal complaint maybe?
3. Would this be expectional circumstances to ask for an anytime revison of his ESA.

His has a "live" UC claim. But no money, he is not doing any searching etc, its just live...but dead. lol.

odd , what do you think or advise ? 1, 2 or 3 ?

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3 years 9 months ago #260279 by Gary
Replied by Gary on topic No MH Engagement PIP and ESA
Hi raindaisy

You need to seek specialist advice from your local Welfare Rights Organisation: You can find your local Welfare Rights Organisation to help you with advice by clicking on the link below and putting in your post code, it will then come up with a MAP with a list of agencies.

advicelocal.uk

If the WCA was in 2019 then you will be out of time to apply for a MR, max time is 13 months unless you can show there was an official error in which case there are no time limits (Any time review) try and seek specialist advice.

If you have any further questions come back to the forum.

Gary

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