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PIP "tentative" award and Mandatory Reconsideration
- Andrew
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2 years 10 months ago #269076 by Andrew
Replied by Andrew on topic PIP "tentative" award and Mandatory Reconsideration
Hello PDix,
Thank you for your reply; more good pointers for me to work with.
This is very true: "With back problems, I doubt that you are able to stand and walk without a great deal of pain and it takes you quite a few minutes to get mobile".
It can take a few minutes to get an element of mobility
I`ve tried using a walking stick, but it made it worse, so now I just grit my teeth and put up with it (I`m ex-military, so have a bloody-minded attitude with some things).
Thank you and regards,
Andy
Thank you for your reply; more good pointers for me to work with.
This is very true: "With back problems, I doubt that you are able to stand and walk without a great deal of pain and it takes you quite a few minutes to get mobile".
It can take a few minutes to get an element of mobility
I`ve tried using a walking stick, but it made it worse, so now I just grit my teeth and put up with it (I`m ex-military, so have a bloody-minded attitude with some things).
Thank you and regards,
Andy
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- Andrew
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2 years 10 months ago #269285 by Andrew
Replied by Andrew on topic PIP "tentative" award and Mandatory Reconsideration
Good Morning all,
I`ve had my award / decision letter and I have been "awarded" enhanced for Daily Living. Once again, thank you for your help with this.
The Decision Maker explained why he has only given 4 points for mobility; because I can walk a round trip of 200 meters (even though it`s considerably less - but you`ve already explained my mistake there) I only qualify for 4 points. He did, however, acknowledge that (quote) "you report that you need to stop and rest before carrying on" but has completely ignored the significance of these stops.
Throughout the PA3, the assessor consistently used "significant pain" in the boxes for her comments, yet the Decision Maker appears to have ignored this.
One area of challenge for me now is trying to identify further examples of how walking affects me. On my PIP2, I did a "brain dump" of everything I could think of that causes pain from cleaning my teeth to hoovering up to washing the pots, so am at a loss as what to submit as fresh evidence.
I`ve printed all previous comments to this thread and page 88 & 89 of the manual, but I`m still having problems completing "reliably" without repeating what I`ve already submitted. Any guidance on this would be appreciated.
I have to say at this point that I`m not trying to get an award I should not be entitled to, but I do believe that my situation has not been reasonably considered with the result that I`m in a lower award bracket than should be.
Thank you,
Andy
I`ve had my award / decision letter and I have been "awarded" enhanced for Daily Living. Once again, thank you for your help with this.
The Decision Maker explained why he has only given 4 points for mobility; because I can walk a round trip of 200 meters (even though it`s considerably less - but you`ve already explained my mistake there) I only qualify for 4 points. He did, however, acknowledge that (quote) "you report that you need to stop and rest before carrying on" but has completely ignored the significance of these stops.
Throughout the PA3, the assessor consistently used "significant pain" in the boxes for her comments, yet the Decision Maker appears to have ignored this.
One area of challenge for me now is trying to identify further examples of how walking affects me. On my PIP2, I did a "brain dump" of everything I could think of that causes pain from cleaning my teeth to hoovering up to washing the pots, so am at a loss as what to submit as fresh evidence.
I`ve printed all previous comments to this thread and page 88 & 89 of the manual, but I`m still having problems completing "reliably" without repeating what I`ve already submitted. Any guidance on this would be appreciated.
I have to say at this point that I`m not trying to get an award I should not be entitled to, but I do believe that my situation has not been reasonably considered with the result that I`m in a lower award bracket than should be.
Thank you,
Andy
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- Gary
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2 years 10 months ago #269313 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic PIP "tentative" award and Mandatory Reconsideration
Hi Andrew
Congratulations on getting so far in your claim.
If you are going for a MR then you need to write that you do not disagree with the award for the daily living component but that you do disagree on the mobility conponent for the following reason: .... then set out why you disagree.
The Going Out activity looks at three things.
Planning a route - this is primarily a cognitive or sensory (e.g. blindness) activity. You are being asked about the problems you would have with working out how to get from one place to another, you do not need to be able to follow the route that you are planning.
Undertaking a Journey - this is to do with mental health issues such as agoraphobia and social anxiety and is concerned with you leaving the house to go somewhere, they will be interested in the things that stop you doing this. You need to show that you would suffer "overwhelming psychological distress" to meet the criteria.
Following a route - This activity about the problems you would have navigating a route. So are there any problems; cognitive, sensory or mental health issues that would prevent you from doing this? This is different from undertaking a journey, in fact, if you cannot undertake a journey then you will not score points for following one and vice versa.
It does not consider any physical problems that may prevent you from following a route.
Things to think about for your MR in regard the Moving Around activity.
You are not required to walk pain free but any pain that restricts the distance that you can walk should be taken into account.
Specifically for the Moving Around activity, if you are able to walk but you are in severe pain when doing so, then you can argue that your walking is not to a necessary standard and should be disregarded.
The legal test requires you to stand and then move (walk), so if you have problems getting up then you should document these as well.
If you walk slowly then it must take you at least twice the time to cover the distance as a healthy person would, this could be down to the speed of your walking but could also be the result of having to stop.
You must be able to repeat the distance, so if you could walk it once but not then be able to walk it again within a reasonable timescale then you should be classed as unable to repeat the activity.
I'm afraid I can't tell you how to show your walking is more restricted but things you need to think about is what you can't do, for example where can you walk in your house, how far is the toilet from where you normally sit, things that will count against you are any trips that you make outside, so for example, how do you do your shopping?
You must be able to walk the distance you can, reliably and on the majority of days, both these terms are defined in the PIP Claim guide
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
So you need to explain what you can do, how you are limited and why.
Gary
Congratulations on getting so far in your claim.
If you are going for a MR then you need to write that you do not disagree with the award for the daily living component but that you do disagree on the mobility conponent for the following reason: .... then set out why you disagree.
The Going Out activity looks at three things.
Planning a route - this is primarily a cognitive or sensory (e.g. blindness) activity. You are being asked about the problems you would have with working out how to get from one place to another, you do not need to be able to follow the route that you are planning.
Undertaking a Journey - this is to do with mental health issues such as agoraphobia and social anxiety and is concerned with you leaving the house to go somewhere, they will be interested in the things that stop you doing this. You need to show that you would suffer "overwhelming psychological distress" to meet the criteria.
Following a route - This activity about the problems you would have navigating a route. So are there any problems; cognitive, sensory or mental health issues that would prevent you from doing this? This is different from undertaking a journey, in fact, if you cannot undertake a journey then you will not score points for following one and vice versa.
It does not consider any physical problems that may prevent you from following a route.
Things to think about for your MR in regard the Moving Around activity.
You are not required to walk pain free but any pain that restricts the distance that you can walk should be taken into account.
Specifically for the Moving Around activity, if you are able to walk but you are in severe pain when doing so, then you can argue that your walking is not to a necessary standard and should be disregarded.
The legal test requires you to stand and then move (walk), so if you have problems getting up then you should document these as well.
If you walk slowly then it must take you at least twice the time to cover the distance as a healthy person would, this could be down to the speed of your walking but could also be the result of having to stop.
You must be able to repeat the distance, so if you could walk it once but not then be able to walk it again within a reasonable timescale then you should be classed as unable to repeat the activity.
I'm afraid I can't tell you how to show your walking is more restricted but things you need to think about is what you can't do, for example where can you walk in your house, how far is the toilet from where you normally sit, things that will count against you are any trips that you make outside, so for example, how do you do your shopping?
You must be able to walk the distance you can, reliably and on the majority of days, both these terms are defined in the PIP Claim guide
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/help-for-claimants/pip
So you need to explain what you can do, how you are limited and why.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Andrew
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2 years 10 months ago #269330 by Andrew
Replied by Andrew on topic PIP "tentative" award and Mandatory Reconsideration
Good Morning Gary,
Thank you very much.
Andy
Thank you very much.
Andy
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2 years 8 months ago #271349 by Andrew
Replied by Andrew on topic PIP "tentative" award and Mandatory Reconsideration
I`m not sure if this was taken properly the first time, so my apologies if it was and you now have two instances
Good Morning,
I did apply for a Mandatory Reconsideration and today I got the response from DWP; no change. I was partly expecting that but what`s rattled my cage (for want of an expression) is the DM appears to have maintained a score of 4 points for "mobility - moving around" on the fact that my asthma is well controlled. Not once did he (I`m assuming "Alex" is a he) refer to the pain I feel when walking.
My MR contained:
I`ve been assessed as being able to walk 200m unaided; in reality doing so causes me significant pain, severe discomfort and breathlessness and would mean I could not repeat the same route within a reasonable period of time.
Due to frequently stopping and resting, not just pausing, I believe the distance to the shop (as covered in my PIP2) is made up of smaller walks; therefore I cannot actually walk 200m as suggested by the assessor (even though the shop is much less than 200m away at 171m). I believe this is not to an acceptable standard.
Walking causes pain to spread up my back, round my sides and down into my right leg (as shown in the diagram I provided with PIP2), causing me to walk slowly with a limp. This, combined with having to stop to gain my breath and ease the pain, means I take a lot longer than an able-bodied person would for the same distance.
I feel the assessor has failed to take into account that I cannot walk the 25 meters to my drive gate safely, reliably and to a reasonable standard for the majority of the time and therefore I should not be assessed as being able to walk more than 20 meters. While completion of an activity is not expected to be pain free, completing an activity when suffering significant pain is not completing an activity in accordance with the PIP criteria.
The question I now have is whether to "just" be happy that my Enhanced Daily Living wasn`t reduced and take no further action or feel aggrieved at the fact the DM (appears to have) completely dismissed my concerns over pain.
Any advice would be welcome, if not for taking this forward but for the review in March 2025.
Thank you,
Andy
Good Morning,
I did apply for a Mandatory Reconsideration and today I got the response from DWP; no change. I was partly expecting that but what`s rattled my cage (for want of an expression) is the DM appears to have maintained a score of 4 points for "mobility - moving around" on the fact that my asthma is well controlled. Not once did he (I`m assuming "Alex" is a he) refer to the pain I feel when walking.
My MR contained:
I`ve been assessed as being able to walk 200m unaided; in reality doing so causes me significant pain, severe discomfort and breathlessness and would mean I could not repeat the same route within a reasonable period of time.
Due to frequently stopping and resting, not just pausing, I believe the distance to the shop (as covered in my PIP2) is made up of smaller walks; therefore I cannot actually walk 200m as suggested by the assessor (even though the shop is much less than 200m away at 171m). I believe this is not to an acceptable standard.
Walking causes pain to spread up my back, round my sides and down into my right leg (as shown in the diagram I provided with PIP2), causing me to walk slowly with a limp. This, combined with having to stop to gain my breath and ease the pain, means I take a lot longer than an able-bodied person would for the same distance.
I feel the assessor has failed to take into account that I cannot walk the 25 meters to my drive gate safely, reliably and to a reasonable standard for the majority of the time and therefore I should not be assessed as being able to walk more than 20 meters. While completion of an activity is not expected to be pain free, completing an activity when suffering significant pain is not completing an activity in accordance with the PIP criteria.
The question I now have is whether to "just" be happy that my Enhanced Daily Living wasn`t reduced and take no further action or feel aggrieved at the fact the DM (appears to have) completely dismissed my concerns over pain.
Any advice would be welcome, if not for taking this forward but for the review in March 2025.
Thank you,
Andy
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- BIS
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2 years 8 months ago #271361 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic PIP "tentative" award and Mandatory Reconsideration
Hi Andy
I can't tell you what to do, because only you know your medical condition and how if affects you, but here are some thoughts.
1. The majority of mandatory reconsiderations are unchanged.
2. If you put in for an MR - your current award stays as it is and will be paid while you wait for an appeal
3. Putting in for an appeal can be stressful but we have very good guides to help you.
4. Waiting for an appeal to take place - could be as long as a year
5. If you put in for an appeal and later change your mind you can always withdraw.
6. If you get to an appeal and there is any danger to your current award - the Tribunal Chairman will tell you so and you will be given the chance to withdraw.
7. Although the numbers have lowered the majority of claimants win their PIP appeals.
Hope this helps
BIS
I can't tell you what to do, because only you know your medical condition and how if affects you, but here are some thoughts.
1. The majority of mandatory reconsiderations are unchanged.
2. If you put in for an MR - your current award stays as it is and will be paid while you wait for an appeal
3. Putting in for an appeal can be stressful but we have very good guides to help you.
4. Waiting for an appeal to take place - could be as long as a year
5. If you put in for an appeal and later change your mind you can always withdraw.
6. If you get to an appeal and there is any danger to your current award - the Tribunal Chairman will tell you so and you will be given the chance to withdraw.
7. Although the numbers have lowered the majority of claimants win their PIP appeals.
Hope this helps
BIS
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