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Using 'able to drive' as justification to decline PIP applications
- Jevans
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2 years 4 months ago #273539 by Jevans
Using 'able to drive' as justification to decline PIP applications was created by Jevans
Hi everyone,I've just joined Benefits and Work and this is my first post on the forum.
I'm about to fill in my PIP2 form and I've been looking at the guide for completing it (a comprehensive document!).
The thing that has struck me most reading this guide is the section relating to applications being turned down due to being able to drive. It can't just be me, but surely this is a nonsense and raises so many ethical questions about the process. If being able to drive means that a person doesn't need PIP and therefore by implication isn't disabled, how come there is a blue badge scheme, disabled parking spots, modified vehicles, motability, etc, etc. Ok, the person could be a passenger but in that case, why modifications for drivers? Surely part of the independence payment would be intended for use to get around? Its just not logical.
A question I have related to this is about Blue Badges. I already hold a Blue Badge and have done for 2 years which was granted due to anxiety and depression (the process of obtaining this was excruciating and deeply flawed, but that post is for another day). But, I also have 2 prolapsed discs in my lower back which has been problematic for a number of years but over the last 6 months it's been unbearable and seriously impacts my mobility to the point that I can no longer work and I am supported with many aspects of daily life by my partner, so I am lucky in that respect. This means that she can't work either. Hence my application for PIP.
Back to the question, does anyone know of instances where PIP (mobility section) has been declined when the person already holds a Blue Badge? Also, the questions for obtaining a Blue Badge are different than those for PIP but should I still used the details on that application as supporting evidence?
Many thanks in advance for any replies to this quite lengthy post!
I'm about to fill in my PIP2 form and I've been looking at the guide for completing it (a comprehensive document!).
The thing that has struck me most reading this guide is the section relating to applications being turned down due to being able to drive. It can't just be me, but surely this is a nonsense and raises so many ethical questions about the process. If being able to drive means that a person doesn't need PIP and therefore by implication isn't disabled, how come there is a blue badge scheme, disabled parking spots, modified vehicles, motability, etc, etc. Ok, the person could be a passenger but in that case, why modifications for drivers? Surely part of the independence payment would be intended for use to get around? Its just not logical.
A question I have related to this is about Blue Badges. I already hold a Blue Badge and have done for 2 years which was granted due to anxiety and depression (the process of obtaining this was excruciating and deeply flawed, but that post is for another day). But, I also have 2 prolapsed discs in my lower back which has been problematic for a number of years but over the last 6 months it's been unbearable and seriously impacts my mobility to the point that I can no longer work and I am supported with many aspects of daily life by my partner, so I am lucky in that respect. This means that she can't work either. Hence my application for PIP.
Back to the question, does anyone know of instances where PIP (mobility section) has been declined when the person already holds a Blue Badge? Also, the questions for obtaining a Blue Badge are different than those for PIP but should I still used the details on that application as supporting evidence?
Many thanks in advance for any replies to this quite lengthy post!
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- BIS
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2 years 4 months ago #273547 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic Using 'able to drive' as justification to decline PIP applications
Hi Jevans
Welcome to the forum. If you need any help finding information on the site, you can find it here: benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/faq
There are plenty of people who drive and also claim PIP - but it is perfectly true that some people claiming PIP find themselves not being awarded points where they think they should have done because they drive a car. Sometimes this is an unfair decision, and it has later been overturned at a tribunal. In other cases, the Tribunal has agreed with the DWP. One of the points that comes up a lot is that if someone is driving (which needs both upper and lower body strength) and yet someone says they are unable to grip things - the DWP is likely to argue that the person has more strength than they are claiming or they should not be driving at all because they are not safe. That's just one example, and there are others. So people do drive and gain PIP, but it all depends on an individual's medical condition/s and how it impacts their daily life and mobility against the PIP criteria.
Yes, it would be possible for someone to hold a blue badge and be declined the mobility component of PIP, because the criteria are not all the same, the assessment process is different, and in each case, there is an element of the decision maker's 'opinion', and the DWP and Local Council may not agree. Include any information you think is relevant in the mobility sections of your PIP form.
If your partner cares for you, they could apply for carer's allowance if they haven't already (and if they wanted to). It is not a means-tested benefit.
BIS
Welcome to the forum. If you need any help finding information on the site, you can find it here: benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/faq
There are plenty of people who drive and also claim PIP - but it is perfectly true that some people claiming PIP find themselves not being awarded points where they think they should have done because they drive a car. Sometimes this is an unfair decision, and it has later been overturned at a tribunal. In other cases, the Tribunal has agreed with the DWP. One of the points that comes up a lot is that if someone is driving (which needs both upper and lower body strength) and yet someone says they are unable to grip things - the DWP is likely to argue that the person has more strength than they are claiming or they should not be driving at all because they are not safe. That's just one example, and there are others. So people do drive and gain PIP, but it all depends on an individual's medical condition/s and how it impacts their daily life and mobility against the PIP criteria.
Yes, it would be possible for someone to hold a blue badge and be declined the mobility component of PIP, because the criteria are not all the same, the assessment process is different, and in each case, there is an element of the decision maker's 'opinion', and the DWP and Local Council may not agree. Include any information you think is relevant in the mobility sections of your PIP form.
If your partner cares for you, they could apply for carer's allowance if they haven't already (and if they wanted to). It is not a means-tested benefit.
BIS
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- SUE C C
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2 years 4 months ago #273551 by SUE C C
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Replied by SUE C C on topic Using 'able to drive' as justification to decline PIP applications
Hello Jevans welcome to the B&W family
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Mollie
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2 years 4 months ago #273558 by Mollie
Replied by Mollie on topic Using 'able to drive' as justification to decline PIP applications
When I applied for PIP just over 3 years ago I had had a Blue Badge for 6 years and was in the process of applying for my third. Initially, I got turned down for mobility and only received Standard Daily Living but after an MR and putting in an appeal, the DWP upped their offer to enhanced for both sections.
The following user(s) said Thank You: denby
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- LL26
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2 years 4 months ago #273566 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Using 'able to drive' as justification to decline PIP applications
Hi Jevans,
Welcome to B&W.
Please be aware that Blue Badges can be awarded for more than just poor walking ability, hence the extended questions over and above the mobility questions in the PIP form.
Make sure your PIP form deals with your mobility problems caused by mental or physical health. So, discuss your ability to leave home and go somewhere, which could be 60 m to local shop or 200 mile trip etc as per mobility 1. Then discuss your physical walking ability per mobility 2. There may well be a lot of cross over with the scope of the blue badge, but as stated earlier blue badges cover a lot more difficulties.
You may wish to read the arguments I wrote about driving comparisons which is the very first post on the forum page. (Gary kindly posted this for me so it is in his name.) DWP commonly use driving comparisons which do not stand up to scrutiny; however the analogies are still perpetuated!
I hope this helps.
LL26
Welcome to B&W.
Please be aware that Blue Badges can be awarded for more than just poor walking ability, hence the extended questions over and above the mobility questions in the PIP form.
Make sure your PIP form deals with your mobility problems caused by mental or physical health. So, discuss your ability to leave home and go somewhere, which could be 60 m to local shop or 200 mile trip etc as per mobility 1. Then discuss your physical walking ability per mobility 2. There may well be a lot of cross over with the scope of the blue badge, but as stated earlier blue badges cover a lot more difficulties.
You may wish to read the arguments I wrote about driving comparisons which is the very first post on the forum page. (Gary kindly posted this for me so it is in his name.) DWP commonly use driving comparisons which do not stand up to scrutiny; however the analogies are still perpetuated!
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- phrank
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2 years 4 months ago #273571 by phrank
Replied by phrank on topic Using 'able to drive' as justification to decline PIP applications
Hi all,
My friend, after suffering multiple strokes on top of health issues he had had for many years, decided to put in for PIP after I encouraged him to do so, given his newly acquired limitations on top of the old ones.
He works - and drives to work each day - but his limitations completing tasks at home, have worsened considerably.
To cut a long story short; he was turned down both with the Initial claim and then the MR. This was mainly because he could drive.
It is now with the Tribunal Services so out of our hands for the time being.
It seems that, unfortunately, the mention of DRIVING sends the assessor(s) into raptures and spontaneous bouts of 'Rubbing-Hands with a Beaming Smile Syndrome' with the assurance of a big fat bonus to enhance their salaries!
Drives me up the wall, it does.
Did I just say DRIVE?
ARGHH!
Regards,
Phrank.
My friend, after suffering multiple strokes on top of health issues he had had for many years, decided to put in for PIP after I encouraged him to do so, given his newly acquired limitations on top of the old ones.
He works - and drives to work each day - but his limitations completing tasks at home, have worsened considerably.
To cut a long story short; he was turned down both with the Initial claim and then the MR. This was mainly because he could drive.
It is now with the Tribunal Services so out of our hands for the time being.
It seems that, unfortunately, the mention of DRIVING sends the assessor(s) into raptures and spontaneous bouts of 'Rubbing-Hands with a Beaming Smile Syndrome' with the assurance of a big fat bonus to enhance their salaries!
Drives me up the wall, it does.
Did I just say DRIVE?
ARGHH!
Regards,
Phrank.
The following user(s) said Thank You: meishamich123, denby, BIS, Gary, LL26, Jackie C
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