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Tips invited on how to address PIP assessment criteria in a submission
- x333xxx
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2 years 4 months ago #273585 by x333xxx
Tips invited on how to address PIP assessment criteria in a submission was created by x333xxx
I am currently awaiting a tribunal date for a PIP appeal. DWP have responded to the tribunal but have yet to send me their documents.
I would like to write a submission for the tribunal to consider, and I feel that I need to address what I see as shortcomings in the assessment criteria. They are too inflexible I feel.
I'd welcome any tips on how to do that in a constructive way.
For example Mobility Activity 1 (planning and following journeys). None of the activity descriptors are applicable to me, yet I believe in order for my appeal to succeed I need to score some points in this section?
My mobility disability impacts on my ability to walk. Every single step is painful, and I cannot stand still (eg queue for something). I can plan a route, but I can't always follow it if a) an unplanned diversion is necessary or b) my feet scream in pain and I need to sit down somewhere. Is there a way to correlate this issue to the descriptors in a meaningful way?
I would like to write a submission for the tribunal to consider, and I feel that I need to address what I see as shortcomings in the assessment criteria. They are too inflexible I feel.
I'd welcome any tips on how to do that in a constructive way.
For example Mobility Activity 1 (planning and following journeys). None of the activity descriptors are applicable to me, yet I believe in order for my appeal to succeed I need to score some points in this section?
My mobility disability impacts on my ability to walk. Every single step is painful, and I cannot stand still (eg queue for something). I can plan a route, but I can't always follow it if a) an unplanned diversion is necessary or b) my feet scream in pain and I need to sit down somewhere. Is there a way to correlate this issue to the descriptors in a meaningful way?
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- LL26
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2 years 4 months ago #273596 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Tips invited on how to address PIP assessment criteria in a submission
Hi x333xxx,
All descriptor tasks have to be done safely, in reasonable time, to acceptable standard and repeatedly. If you can't achieve all four of these you legally can not do the task and should score points at the appropriate level to your disability.
Whilst I am all too aware that many assessments do not reflect the severity of disability and use tenuous analogy to suggest the activities can be done, I wonder if you haven't properly explained your disability in accordance with the above criteria (from Regulation 4(2A) PIP regulations 2013. (If you don't explain properly, this will just create more justification for a negative report from the Assessor!)
Don't worry, many claimants don't know about reg 4, and the Assessors and decision makers ignore it!
Let me explain reg 4 in more detail...
Safety- can you complete the activity without a risk of substantial harm to you or another. Even if the likelihood of harm isn't often, it doesn't matter. Think epilepsy- fits are seldom, but risk when eg using bath or cooking is very great if you have a fit at this time. But safety refers to all activities so eg mobility if there is a risk of a fall.
Reasonable time is no more than twice the time of non disabled person. So if the 'normal time' is 10 minutes, but your disability means it takes 30 mins you fail the reas time test and then can't do that activity and should get points.
Acceptable standard this isn't defined in the regulations but is the standard you would normally expect. So under descriptor 1 can you cook etc - if you always burn food and ruin pans, even though you can peel chop vegetables. This would indicate assistance or prompting is required and hence you should get the points that are relevant to your disability.
Pain must also be taken into account. Whilst tasks don't have to be pain free, high levels of pain will suggest non acceptable standard. Specifically fir mobility 2, any walking done with severe discomfort must be discounted. This means if you have severe discomfort at the start of any walking your PIP ability is actually zero even though you may actually be able to walk say 50m! You said your feet scream pain and this suggests that your PIP ability ie your 'legal' ability not absolute ability is very little and hence you fall within the 12 points category.
Even if you can walk fir a few metres without pain consider why you need to stop, breathlessness, fatigue etc all fall within 'severe discomfort' - so think about this too.
If your stop is a longer one, then it is possible you will fail to be in a reasonable time.
Final criteria - repetition- you need to be able to do each activity throughout the day meeting the other 3 criteria as often as reasonably required.Each activity will have different repetition rates. Cooking might be 3 or 4 times per day. Toilet needs could be 8 times per day but maybe 20+ if you have incontinence. Communication is 24/7. Maybe mobility is 200m 4 or 5 times per day.Eg walk kids to school, rest come back.Walk to post box. Later realise need to go to bank. Walk to friends house. Etc None of the above would be unreasonable across the day. Remember, even though it sounds implausible all these places would be 200m or less, they could be less than 200m from the disabled parking place!
Last thing to consider- regulation 7. There are various different values within each descriptor section. Reg 7 stated that highest value should apply when one or more of the activity levels apply equally, otherwise the most prevalent activity score should be awarded if your disability levels vary.
Reg 7 also says that points are awarded for the activity you can't do for the majority if time, so having a better day won't preclude points.
Basically considr each descriptor. Look at the first one and go down. Which one applies for majority of days? Take into account the safety, repetition etc, at each level to determine whether you can perform the activity. Work out eg do you need an aid/appliance, may be you need assistance or support, or prompting, maybe because you can't repeat, can't be safe, you can't do it at all!
Criticise the assessor ' but try and group criticisms into 4 or 5 bullet points and give examples of worst. Dont accuse assessor of lying, you can't prove it, but he may have misunderstood or written down incorrectly, so say that, because you can prove that.
You can explain your disability and say what points you should have got as per above.
I hope this helps.
LL26
All descriptor tasks have to be done safely, in reasonable time, to acceptable standard and repeatedly. If you can't achieve all four of these you legally can not do the task and should score points at the appropriate level to your disability.
Whilst I am all too aware that many assessments do not reflect the severity of disability and use tenuous analogy to suggest the activities can be done, I wonder if you haven't properly explained your disability in accordance with the above criteria (from Regulation 4(2A) PIP regulations 2013. (If you don't explain properly, this will just create more justification for a negative report from the Assessor!)
Don't worry, many claimants don't know about reg 4, and the Assessors and decision makers ignore it!
Let me explain reg 4 in more detail...
Safety- can you complete the activity without a risk of substantial harm to you or another. Even if the likelihood of harm isn't often, it doesn't matter. Think epilepsy- fits are seldom, but risk when eg using bath or cooking is very great if you have a fit at this time. But safety refers to all activities so eg mobility if there is a risk of a fall.
Reasonable time is no more than twice the time of non disabled person. So if the 'normal time' is 10 minutes, but your disability means it takes 30 mins you fail the reas time test and then can't do that activity and should get points.
Acceptable standard this isn't defined in the regulations but is the standard you would normally expect. So under descriptor 1 can you cook etc - if you always burn food and ruin pans, even though you can peel chop vegetables. This would indicate assistance or prompting is required and hence you should get the points that are relevant to your disability.
Pain must also be taken into account. Whilst tasks don't have to be pain free, high levels of pain will suggest non acceptable standard. Specifically fir mobility 2, any walking done with severe discomfort must be discounted. This means if you have severe discomfort at the start of any walking your PIP ability is actually zero even though you may actually be able to walk say 50m! You said your feet scream pain and this suggests that your PIP ability ie your 'legal' ability not absolute ability is very little and hence you fall within the 12 points category.
Even if you can walk fir a few metres without pain consider why you need to stop, breathlessness, fatigue etc all fall within 'severe discomfort' - so think about this too.
If your stop is a longer one, then it is possible you will fail to be in a reasonable time.
Final criteria - repetition- you need to be able to do each activity throughout the day meeting the other 3 criteria as often as reasonably required.Each activity will have different repetition rates. Cooking might be 3 or 4 times per day. Toilet needs could be 8 times per day but maybe 20+ if you have incontinence. Communication is 24/7. Maybe mobility is 200m 4 or 5 times per day.Eg walk kids to school, rest come back.Walk to post box. Later realise need to go to bank. Walk to friends house. Etc None of the above would be unreasonable across the day. Remember, even though it sounds implausible all these places would be 200m or less, they could be less than 200m from the disabled parking place!
Last thing to consider- regulation 7. There are various different values within each descriptor section. Reg 7 stated that highest value should apply when one or more of the activity levels apply equally, otherwise the most prevalent activity score should be awarded if your disability levels vary.
Reg 7 also says that points are awarded for the activity you can't do for the majority if time, so having a better day won't preclude points.
Basically considr each descriptor. Look at the first one and go down. Which one applies for majority of days? Take into account the safety, repetition etc, at each level to determine whether you can perform the activity. Work out eg do you need an aid/appliance, may be you need assistance or support, or prompting, maybe because you can't repeat, can't be safe, you can't do it at all!
Criticise the assessor ' but try and group criticisms into 4 or 5 bullet points and give examples of worst. Dont accuse assessor of lying, you can't prove it, but he may have misunderstood or written down incorrectly, so say that, because you can prove that.
You can explain your disability and say what points you should have got as per above.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: denby, Waxwing, Johnny, x333xxx
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- x333xxx
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2 years 2 months ago #275390 by x333xxx
Replied by x333xxx on topic Tips invited on how to address PIP assessment criteria in a submission
Dear LL26
Thank you for your most helpful and informative advice.
I duly completed my submission to the tribunal and sent it on its way. As anticipated nothing happened for a couple of weeks!
Last week, out of the blue, I received a telephone call from DWP advising that they had reviewed my application for PIP having had sight of all the evidence I had supplied to the tribunal to support my appeal, and consequently they had determined that I qualify for the enhanced rate of the mobility component, but nothing for daily living. Was I prepared to accept their offer?
The very patient and helpful person on the other end explained the consequences of accepting the offer or the alternative courses of action one might take.
I did query why they disagreed with my own assessment of daily living need, and she said that the best way forward would be to accept the offer, then wait for the official offer letter, and then consider requesting a further mandatory reconsideration of the decision, highlighting why I disagree with their scoring of points on daily living.
I do find it a little baffling that they've given me enhanced rate on mobility and nothing at all for daily living! The mobility issues I have getting about are no different whether I'm trying to get from A to B out of doors or from my sitting room to the kitchen sink or cooker!
Anyway, I'm very happy to have achieved the enhanced rate for mobility, and without doubt this forum and the advice generally provided on the website has proven to be invaluable in writing my appeal submission and achieving that success.
X333XXX
Thank you for your most helpful and informative advice.
I duly completed my submission to the tribunal and sent it on its way. As anticipated nothing happened for a couple of weeks!
Last week, out of the blue, I received a telephone call from DWP advising that they had reviewed my application for PIP having had sight of all the evidence I had supplied to the tribunal to support my appeal, and consequently they had determined that I qualify for the enhanced rate of the mobility component, but nothing for daily living. Was I prepared to accept their offer?
The very patient and helpful person on the other end explained the consequences of accepting the offer or the alternative courses of action one might take.
I did query why they disagreed with my own assessment of daily living need, and she said that the best way forward would be to accept the offer, then wait for the official offer letter, and then consider requesting a further mandatory reconsideration of the decision, highlighting why I disagree with their scoring of points on daily living.
I do find it a little baffling that they've given me enhanced rate on mobility and nothing at all for daily living! The mobility issues I have getting about are no different whether I'm trying to get from A to B out of doors or from my sitting room to the kitchen sink or cooker!
Anyway, I'm very happy to have achieved the enhanced rate for mobility, and without doubt this forum and the advice generally provided on the website has proven to be invaluable in writing my appeal submission and achieving that success.
X333XXX
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2 years 1 month ago #275436 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Tips invited on how to address PIP assessment criteria in a submission
Hi x333xxx,
I'm glad that you found our hints helpful. Well done for enhanced mobility!
But....
Do you wish to try and gain a Daily Living award?
If so, there is nothing stopping appealing to the tribunal for this. Await the decision letter and lodge an appeal. No need to do MR again, you have already done this. Fill out the SSCS1, make it clear that you only want to appeal the Daily living award. Exolain the DWP offer. Go through all the relevant descriptors and explain what you can't do and give examples as you did before.
Why not go for it?
LL26
I'm glad that you found our hints helpful. Well done for enhanced mobility!
But....
Do you wish to try and gain a Daily Living award?
If so, there is nothing stopping appealing to the tribunal for this. Await the decision letter and lodge an appeal. No need to do MR again, you have already done this. Fill out the SSCS1, make it clear that you only want to appeal the Daily living award. Exolain the DWP offer. Go through all the relevant descriptors and explain what you can't do and give examples as you did before.
Why not go for it?
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: x333xxx
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