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Appeal tribunal led to LCW but not LCWRA
- Mike1878
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2 years 5 days ago #276173 by Mike1878
Appeal tribunal led to LCW but not LCWRA was created by Mike1878
Hi I posted a while ago about my migraines, sleep apnoea and insomnia case here www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum/10-dla-e...k-capability?start=0
After going through the process with CAB rep I was only found LCW. Which is really not any help to me as my JC work coach has been extremely patient and supportive with me anyway. She hasn't forced me to do anything because I struggle to concentrate on anything meaningful. So I am thinking this might actually be out of the frying pan into the fire?
I am also panicking now because financially I won't be able to last any longer on standard rate UC, I have been waiting for this appeal since before covid happened. I have borrowed so much money to get by during this time and I am absolutely devastated that I am going to end up falling back into the same cycle of working because I can't afford not to, pushing myself to the limit because I worry about letting people down making myself more ill and getting sacked and repeat.
My CAB rep says the only way to appeal again is if the judge has made a mistake in his work or something like that..
The judge was pretty horrible and the dr was asking all the wrong questions. I didn't really help myself like I wanted to, I probably gave too much of the wrong information, and not enough of the right info. Judge kept interrupting me in my train of thought, saying I have already stated something. But my brain doesn't work like that. I needed extra time to think and it just felt rushed, he was rude and impatient. I struggle horribly with verbal communication and especially when its over the phone. I rely on peoples facial expressions to be able to talk fluidly enough. I am like this even with family, nevermind a panel of strangers. So I just stuttered and couldn't find the words I wanted to say or remember what I needed to.
They didn't find enough points for me, but they ruled that they worry my mental health would substantially deteriorate if I was made to work and that paragraph 4 schedule 8 applied. Which it would. But so will work related activity and the lack of being able to afford to eat regularly. I already feel like just ending it all right now to be honest. I am heartbroken and I have almost given up.
Not even gotten out of bed since I got the decision and was told what it meant. I can't keep going like this but hoping someone has ideas, but I don't know if I can go through any more of this. The entire process has made me go from being on top of my anxiety/depression, I was optimistic and hopeful with my goal to get better and become self-employed, to severely depressed and anxious. I don't go out, don't have any friends or ever buy or do anything for myself. There's no joy in my life. I think about death, and dream about it every day. I am completely beaten by the system and out of ideas.
Sorry for being so negative. I hate opening up like this, but I am desperate for some hope.
Please don't worry about my safety due to mental health. I am already in contact with the relevant people and I have been offered counselling but there is a long waiting list.
Thanks
After going through the process with CAB rep I was only found LCW. Which is really not any help to me as my JC work coach has been extremely patient and supportive with me anyway. She hasn't forced me to do anything because I struggle to concentrate on anything meaningful. So I am thinking this might actually be out of the frying pan into the fire?
I am also panicking now because financially I won't be able to last any longer on standard rate UC, I have been waiting for this appeal since before covid happened. I have borrowed so much money to get by during this time and I am absolutely devastated that I am going to end up falling back into the same cycle of working because I can't afford not to, pushing myself to the limit because I worry about letting people down making myself more ill and getting sacked and repeat.
My CAB rep says the only way to appeal again is if the judge has made a mistake in his work or something like that..
The judge was pretty horrible and the dr was asking all the wrong questions. I didn't really help myself like I wanted to, I probably gave too much of the wrong information, and not enough of the right info. Judge kept interrupting me in my train of thought, saying I have already stated something. But my brain doesn't work like that. I needed extra time to think and it just felt rushed, he was rude and impatient. I struggle horribly with verbal communication and especially when its over the phone. I rely on peoples facial expressions to be able to talk fluidly enough. I am like this even with family, nevermind a panel of strangers. So I just stuttered and couldn't find the words I wanted to say or remember what I needed to.
They didn't find enough points for me, but they ruled that they worry my mental health would substantially deteriorate if I was made to work and that paragraph 4 schedule 8 applied. Which it would. But so will work related activity and the lack of being able to afford to eat regularly. I already feel like just ending it all right now to be honest. I am heartbroken and I have almost given up.
Not even gotten out of bed since I got the decision and was told what it meant. I can't keep going like this but hoping someone has ideas, but I don't know if I can go through any more of this. The entire process has made me go from being on top of my anxiety/depression, I was optimistic and hopeful with my goal to get better and become self-employed, to severely depressed and anxious. I don't go out, don't have any friends or ever buy or do anything for myself. There's no joy in my life. I think about death, and dream about it every day. I am completely beaten by the system and out of ideas.
Sorry for being so negative. I hate opening up like this, but I am desperate for some hope.
Please don't worry about my safety due to mental health. I am already in contact with the relevant people and I have been offered counselling but there is a long waiting list.
Thanks
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- Gordon
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2 years 5 days ago #276191 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Appeal tribunal led to LCW but not LCWRA
Mike
So, both you and the DWP have a further right of appeal to the Upper Tier Tribunal but this can only be done on the basis of there being an Error of Law in the making of the First Tier's Decision.
The first stage to this process is requesting a Statement of Reasons from the Judge in charge of your appeal, both parties (the DWP and you) will receive a copy. I'm afraid, these can often take three months to be prepared.
It may well be that the DWP will not find such Error and will then have to the panel's Decsion but if it does go further then you will be able to respond the DWP's arguments at each stage.
Gordon
So, both you and the DWP have a further right of appeal to the Upper Tier Tribunal but this can only be done on the basis of there being an Error of Law in the making of the First Tier's Decision.
The first stage to this process is requesting a Statement of Reasons from the Judge in charge of your appeal, both parties (the DWP and you) will receive a copy. I'm afraid, these can often take three months to be prepared.
It may well be that the DWP will not find such Error and will then have to the panel's Decsion but if it does go further then you will be able to respond the DWP's arguments at each stage.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Mike1878
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2 years 2 days ago #276357 by Mike1878
Replied by Mike1878 on topic Appeal tribunal led to LCW but not LCWRA
Hi Gordon thanks for your reply.
I wouldn't really know what errors to look for. All I can think of is that the judge stopped me speaking multiple times, and interrupted my train of thought.
The clerk also said to me when asked (before call) that I would be able to appeal the decision, he didn't say that this was only possible if there were mistakes made. Which gave me a false sense of confidence that there would be further opportunities to argue my case and it removed some of the urgency.
I wasn't asked about how my conditions would affect me during work related activity. I thought that I'd be asked about this if they were considering me for it?
The Dr joked with me about not holding it against me that I support a football team which rivals hers. But honestly I wasn't very amused as I was a total and utter wreck. I couldn't think clearly or speak clearly. I am terrible verbally and only really make much sense when writing text. I also struggle to digest anything being said to me verbally.
Is any of that useful for appealing to the upper tier?
I will request reasons for decision and update this topic when I have it
P.S. I cannot find post history when I go to "My Topics". It's just empty there so having to bookmark my posts.
THanks
I wouldn't really know what errors to look for. All I can think of is that the judge stopped me speaking multiple times, and interrupted my train of thought.
The clerk also said to me when asked (before call) that I would be able to appeal the decision, he didn't say that this was only possible if there were mistakes made. Which gave me a false sense of confidence that there would be further opportunities to argue my case and it removed some of the urgency.
I wasn't asked about how my conditions would affect me during work related activity. I thought that I'd be asked about this if they were considering me for it?
The Dr joked with me about not holding it against me that I support a football team which rivals hers. But honestly I wasn't very amused as I was a total and utter wreck. I couldn't think clearly or speak clearly. I am terrible verbally and only really make much sense when writing text. I also struggle to digest anything being said to me verbally.
Is any of that useful for appealing to the upper tier?
I will request reasons for decision and update this topic when I have it
P.S. I cannot find post history when I go to "My Topics". It's just empty there so having to bookmark my posts.
THanks
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- Gary
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2 years 2 days ago #276365 by Gary
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Replied by Gary on topic Appeal tribunal led to LCW but not LCWRA
Hi Mike
Depending where you live I am sure there will be voluntary organisations that provide appeals assistance. CAB might do this, but would no doubt give you information about other organisations who can help. Otherwise a law centre could help.
When asking for the Written Statement of Reasons (WSOR) also ask for a transcript of the recording that should have been made during the hearing. (You may only get a recording so you may have to listen to this and copy it down yourself.) Compare the transcript with the WSOR, in order to appeal further you will need to identify at least one error of law.
Obvious errors of law could be agreeing that someone has difficulties eg with preparing a simple meal and then not even considering to award points. Alternatively there may be contradictions in the transcript versus the WSOR, maybe the tribunal have ignored vital evidence and hence make the wrong conclusion. There may be other errors of law where the tribunal have applied the wrong test, but this may not be very obvious as this could involve reference to caselaw. This is where the help from an experienced appeals officer at an advice centre will be useful. But, if you can spot an obvious error, only one error of law is needed!
advicelocal.uk or lawcentres.org
Gary
Depending where you live I am sure there will be voluntary organisations that provide appeals assistance. CAB might do this, but would no doubt give you information about other organisations who can help. Otherwise a law centre could help.
When asking for the Written Statement of Reasons (WSOR) also ask for a transcript of the recording that should have been made during the hearing. (You may only get a recording so you may have to listen to this and copy it down yourself.) Compare the transcript with the WSOR, in order to appeal further you will need to identify at least one error of law.
Obvious errors of law could be agreeing that someone has difficulties eg with preparing a simple meal and then not even considering to award points. Alternatively there may be contradictions in the transcript versus the WSOR, maybe the tribunal have ignored vital evidence and hence make the wrong conclusion. There may be other errors of law where the tribunal have applied the wrong test, but this may not be very obvious as this could involve reference to caselaw. This is where the help from an experienced appeals officer at an advice centre will be useful. But, if you can spot an obvious error, only one error of law is needed!
advicelocal.uk or lawcentres.org
Gary
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- Mike1878
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1 year 11 months ago #276565 by Mike1878
Replied by Mike1878 on topic Appeal tribunal led to LCW but not LCWRA
Thanks Gordon. I think I get it now. Hopefully I can find something and then get another chance to appeal. I feel that I didn't get to say a lot of what I wanted to and by the time it was over and he asked if i had anything to add, my anxiety took over. But even then, he still interrupted me and cut me off.
Apologies for the delay in my reply. I am finding it very difficult to face things and depression is getting the better of me. I put everything off.
I'll keep you updated.
Cheers
Apologies for the delay in my reply. I am finding it very difficult to face things and depression is getting the better of me. I put everything off.
I'll keep you updated.
Cheers
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