pip planning journey/ when able to go out/mix with people / theatre

Hi Bunny1

Thank you for your post

The Going Out activity looks at three things.

Planning a route - this is primarily a cognitive or sensory (e.g. blindness) activity. You are being asked about the problems you would have with working out how to get from one place to another, you do not need to be able to follow the route that you are planning.

Undertaking a Journey - this is to do with mental health issues such as agoraphobia and social anxiety and is concerned with you leaving the house to go somewhere, they will be interested in the things that stop you doing this. You need to show that you would suffer "overwhelming psychological distress" to meet the criteria.

Following a route - This activity about the problems you would have navigating a route. So are there any problems; cognitive, sensory or mental health issues that would prevent you from doing this? This is different from undertaking a journey, in fact, if you cannot undertake a journey then you will not score points for following one and vice versa.

This is what the DWP guidance say about Mixing with Other People

This activity considers a claimant’s ability to engage with other people, which means to interact face-to-face in a contextually and socially appropriate manner, understand body language and establish relationships.

Activities 7 and 9 are not mutually exclusive. If claimants require support to engage with others under activity 9, as well as communication support under activity 7, then their needs must be considered under both activities.

Notes:
An inability to engage face-to-face must be due to the impact of impairment and not simply a matter of preference by the claimant.

Social support means support from another person trained or experienced in assisting people to engage in social situations, or someone directly experienced in supporting the claimant themselves (for example a family member or carer), who can compensate for limited ability to understand and respond to body language, other social cues and assist social integration. Most claimants with sensory impairments will be able to fully engage with others independently, however they may score on both activities 7 and 9 if, for example anxiety arising from their impairment means they reasonably require social support to engage with people generally.

Behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person must be as a result of an underlying health condition and the claimant’s inability to control their behaviour.

When considering whether claimants can engage with others, consideration should be given to whether they can engage with people generally, not just those people they know well.

If an individual cannot reliably complete an activity in the way described in a descriptor then they should be considered unable to complete it at that level and an alternative descriptor selected.

I regards to your telephone assessment, if you have a look at our PIP guide at the link below you will see that there are a number pages which include advice on telephone assessments. Yes, a lot of the questions are those that would have been asked if you had a face to face assessment. benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/pip

- Write yourself a bullet point list of any particular points you want to get over, so you have it by you during the assessment, tick them as you cover them during the assessment.
- have paper and pens to hand to make any notes such as the assessors name, date, time
- make sure you are seated in a comfortable chair, you are going to be there a while and at table to make notes
- if you can't hear or understand what is being asked then ask them to repeat the question
- don’t let the assessor rush you and get you flustered.
- don't forget to have a glass of water if needed so you don't get a dry throat and lose your voice!

Don't forget to contact DWP 48 hours after the assessment and ask for a copy of the assessors report called PA4.

Gary

Hi Bunny1

You need to tell the assessor everything as they do not know you, I tell clients that they have to paint a picture in words about how they feel on a day to day basis, if you are on medication which have side effects, then describe the effects, if you were on medication and can no longer take the medication due to the side effects, describe the side effects.

I was speaking to a claimant today who has COPD, she was turned down, I was reading her PA4 report which stated she has 4 good days and 3 bad days a week, I asked her how she felt on a good day compared to a bad day, it turned out that on a good day she was bad and struggled to do anything, on a bad day she could not do anything, so be careful with the language you use.

All descriptor tasks have to be done safely, in reasonable time, to acceptable standard and repeatedly. If you can't achieve all four of these you legally can not do the task and should score points at the appropriate level to your disability.

Whilst I am all too aware that many assessments do not reflect the severity of disability and use tenuous analogy to suggest the activities can be done, I wonder if you haven't properly explained your disability in accordance with the above criteria (from Regulation 4(2A) PIP regulations 2013. (If you don't explain properly, this will just create more justification for a negative report from the Assessor!)

Don't worry, many claimants don't know about reg 4, and the Assessors and decision makers ignore it!

Let me explain reg 4 in more detail...

Safety - can you complete the activity without a risk of substantial harm to you or another. Even if the likelihood of harm isn't often, it doesn't matter. Think epilepsy- fits are seldom, but risk when eg using bath or cooking is very great if you have a fit at this time. But safety refers to all activities so eg mobility if there is a risk of a fall.

Reasonable time - is no more than twice the time of non disabled person. So if the 'normal time' is 10 minutes, but your disability means it takes 30 mins you fail the reasonable time test and then can't do that activity and should get points.

Acceptable standard - this isn't defined in the regulations but is the standard you would normally expect. So under descriptor 1 can you cook etc - if you always burn food and ruin pans, even though you can peel chop vegetables. This would indicate assistance or prompting is required and hence you should get the points that are relevant to your disability.

Pain must also be taken into account. Whilst tasks don't have to be pain free, high levels of pain will suggest non acceptable standard. Specifically for mobility 2, any walking done with severe discomfort must be discounted.

This means if you have severe discomfort at the start of any walking your PIP ability is actually zero even though you may actually be able to walk say 50m! You said your feet scream pain and this suggests that your PIP ability ie your 'legal' ability not absolute ability is very little and hence you fall within the 12 points category.

Even if you can walk for a few metres without pain consider why you need to stop, breathlessness, fatigue etc all fall within 'severe discomfort' - so think about this too.

If your stop is a longer one, then it is possible you will fail to be in a reasonable time.

Final criteria - repetition - you need to be able to do each activity throughout the day meeting the other 3 criteria as often as reasonably required. Each activity will have different repetition rates. Cooking might be 3 or 4 times per day. Toilet needs could be 8 times per day but maybe 20+ if you have incontinence. Communication is 24/7.

Maybe mobility is 200m 4 or 5 times per day. Eg walk kids to school, rest come back. Walk to post box. Later realise need to go to bank. Walk to friends house. Etc None of the above would be unreasonable across the day.

Remember, even though it sounds implausible all these places would be 200m or less, they could be less than 200m from the disabled parking place.

Last thing to consider- regulation 7. There are various different values within each descriptor section. Reg 7 stated that highest value should apply when one or more of the activity levels apply equally, otherwise the most prevalent activity score should be awarded if your disability levels vary.

Reg 7 also says that points are awarded for the activity you can't do for the majority if time, so having a better day won't preclude points.

Basically consider each descriptor. Look at the first one and go down. Which one applies for majority of days?

Take into account the safety, repetition etc, at each level to determine whether you can perform the activity.

Work out eg do you need an aid/appliance, maybe you need assistance or support, or prompting, maybe because you can't repeat, can't be safe, you can't do it at all!

Gary