PIP PA3 - Agree and Disagree with points - is it worth Appealing?

Hi All,

Requested a copy of my PA3 (I had a paper based assessment) of my claim that I filed in Jan 23.

1 (mostly) agree with the points given by the HP except for the following:

Q4 - Achieved option 'b' (needs to use an aid) however, in my claim (and even the H's reasoning) it clearly states 'needs to be prompted due to low mood' - which I thought would have meant option 'c would be chosen. [Additionally HP says 'she struggles to get in and out of the bath' - which I thought would have meant option 'e']

• Q6 - Achieved option 'b' (needs to use an aid however, in my claim (and even the HP's reasoning) it clearly states 'she sufferes with executive dysfunction and will struggle to select clothes to wear' - which I thought would have meant option 'c'.

• Q7 - Achieved option 'a' (can do unaided), however, in my claim (and even the H's reasoning) it clearly states 'she has a poor ability to interpret tone of others. Althought this is acknowledged there are no cognitive or hearing restrictions reported' - I thought would have been awarded option 'c', as I struggle to understand what people want from me when communicating (I now know that this is because of Autism dx 11 May 23 - waiting on report).

•Q11 - Achieved option 'a' (can do unaided), however, in my claim (and even the HP's reasoning) it clearly states claimaint cannot manage public transport alone, she has taxis provided for her to get her to and from uni. She drives but only when she is aware of the journey i.e. if it is a regular route. The GP print off confirms medications and she has been referred to mental health trauma counselling group. (This next bit I have no idea where she got it from!) She is attending university regularly (???) and the GP print off reports she is walking her partners dogs on the weekend (unfortunately the GP report does not state what I did actually state, which is, I will go out after significant prompting to walk the dogs, and only with my partner. Even then this is a rare occurrence like 5 times a year!! All things I said at GP but not noted down). Therefore it is likely she can plan and follow a route of any journey unaided reliably on the majority of days.’

To summarise, I haven’t had the DWP results yet, but know that they rarely change from the HP Report. By the report I score: DL - 19, MB - 10. I have decided when I receive the report, I am going to ask the DWP to provide (if not given) a written explanation for how they decided to award each section.

The reasons I am apprehensive to appeal is:
• They remove my now eligibility (if HP advice followed) to get a blue badge, which I know for me will be absolutely life changing.
• If I have to appeal to either MR or Tribunal status and are awarded, I know that the DWP have a significant habit of not sending out review forms, or telling claimants they have to reapply all over again (which would actually cause significant distress to me)
• If I appeal and use my now diagnosed autism (report still waiting) to bolster previous points for planning a journey, I worry this again will be considered a change of circumstances and require a new assessment.
• I fear having to have a personal assessment - actually having a paper based assessment has been a literal godsend and if I was told to change to a in person (phone, video etc) I would actually probably have a serious case of distress and suffering.

The reasons to appeal are:
• My nature means that even though I have enough points for Enhanced Daily Living - I must correct the DWP on their inaccuracies with their point allocation. (My mother suggested that if not appealing - I could write a statement that, clearly says I’m not appealing due to distress BUT I want the DWP/my record to show that I disagree with the points etc. If anyone knows if this is a thing, and how to do it. I would be appreciative!)
• If the appeal was to go past MR (as I assume MR is again like a paper based review) and in person things were required or even just the very nature of a tribunal will actually make me incredibly distressed.
• If I’m correct with being eligible for points in mobility, thats the difference between Standard and Enhanced. (I am happy to provide in the comments what I (technically my mother as she wrote it) sent to DWP in the PIP2.)

Thanks for reading, I hope people can help me out

Gordon wrote:

I'll try to answer your concerns. There is a window for you to provide additional information to the Decision Maker but you will need to be quick and even then your letter may not arrive in time.

Unfortunately I have no idea as to when the Autism report etc will be given to me (as I was quoted 6-8 week timeframe). So I unfortunately feel it will be past that point!

Gordon wrote:

Q4. You say 'she struggles to get in and out of the bath' but the requirement is that the claimant needs assistance to get in and out of a bath or shower. Do they say this? Did you say this? On it's own the extra point won't help with an award.

The HP report says “CQ reports claimant has a shower stool as she struggles to get in and out of the bath, she cannot readily reach her back to wash and uses a back brush, she will avoid washing and needs to be prompted due to low mood. Although low mood is acknowledged she is under the care of the GP for this, she has then been referred to trauma counselling group. The assessment did report she experiences gross and fine motor difFiculty, she has been referred to physiotherapy the GP reported she has chronic pain in lower back with pain also in neck and various other joints intermittently, The MRI showed mild degenerative changes but other than that it is normal. Therefore it is likely she needs to use aids to be able to wash and bathe to an acceptable standard on the majority of days”

Gordon wrote:

Q6. (b) and (c) both score 2 points. In isolation I would not challenge this as it could lead to your confusing the DM.

I feel I should clarify with the daily living aspects - its not that I want to challenge them due to feeling that they are unjust, I just wondered if there was a way to write to DWP and explain that you disagree with the awarded points without triggering MR. Kinda like a statement of disagreement. Something that would be on the case file showing I disagree but did not file for MR?

Gordon wrote:

Q7. (c) requires communication support. There is no mention of this from the assessor, did you mention it and why it is required in the form you completed?

The HP report says “CQ reports claimant speaks well, but will talk over others, and she has a poor ability to interpret tone of
others. Although this is acknowledged there are no cognitive or hearing restrictions reported and no evidence to suggest otherwise. Therefore it is likely she can express and understand complex verbal information to an acceptable standard on the majority of day”

Gordon wrote:

Q11. The issue seems to revolve around your attending university, your post suggests that you are not, is this the case? If you aren't then this could well be worth your challenging the Decision. 1) You can still apply for a Blue Badge, it will require assessment by your Local Authority. 2) If an adverse Decision is changed at MR then I would expect you to receive a Review form anything up to a year before your award ends. If it goes to appeal then you can still manage the situation, you will know when the award ends and can contact the DWP to start a re-claim.

It’s more of a case, that I have no idea where they are getting the information that I am regularly attending university. The provision is there for me to attend regularly however I have had a significant period of illness which has meant I havent been present in class physically (online yes) for atleast the last 6/7 months. The main issue is that I fully do not understand how I have been awarded zero points. My mother filled out my questionnaire and said the following:

“AnonOrange cannot manage public transport alone. DSA provided (and still provides) taxis to get to/from uni. She finds noisy environments, overwhelming – so when on public transport with myself/her partner will wear noise cancelling headphones to try and minimise the impact.

AnonOrange was helped when she passed her driving test. She isn’t keen to drive at night, but otherwise she will drive.

When she is aware of the journey (its a regular route) she still stresses. She uses Waze and sends me/her partner a notification that she has set off. If there are roadworks, traffic jams - she gets very anxious. She might have to stop her journey, work on managing her anxiety, and then reattempt the journey.

With unfamiliar journeys, we have even more steps to follow. She can’t do any journey without Waze/Satnav. {I am aware of the fact this does not count as an orientation aid with PIP - however if my Satnav was to fail. I would either have to stop the journey (if alone) or rely on others (mother/partner) to essentially become the satnav for the journey - this even applies when walking to places. For example I had parked at a hospital and was given directions by staff to where the correct building was. It was around 10 steps of verbal instruction. I was lost for 15 minutes and late to my appointment by 20 minutes} She also asks for detailed information - eg where to park, where the toilet facilities are. {In most cases, before larger journeys/events, if possible I will make the trip to the area to familiarise myself - or if in the cases of airports read the Autism Guide like there is for Birmingham Airport. I haven’t been on a plane journey without special assistance. Mainly DPNA or WHCR}

When she walks places, she is clumsy. She has fallen off the kerb on 3/4 times occasions in the last year, grazing her face and arms. She often will just not go out.”

Gordon wrote:

Your Autism is a life-long condition, unless you are reporting significantly changed limitations during an appeal then I cannot see why it would be considered a Change.

I agree that my autism is a life-long condition. I feel if given the evidence of Autism, this would only realistically bring a change/call into question the points awarded in Q11 (in regarding to navigating and its impact - that Autism and Dyspraxia have on following journey's) and Q7 (as I am frequently misinterpreting individual instructions/tone).

Gordon wrote:

It is the award that matters not which points are scored for that award. If you do not receive the award you think you deserve then you can look at the points but don't waste your time otherwise, you potentially could undermine what you have already received. Gordon

I really do appreciate it. I think it’s honestly my autistic nature, I always have to correct someone on things like this (whether about myself or others) even when I am told by others “that X doesn’t matter only Y does” - thats why I wondered if there was some process that lets you issue a statement of corrections saying where the HP can be seen as wrong without triggering an MR process.