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Tribunal Appeal Refused
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3 weeks 5 days ago #297275 by Navigator
Tribunal Appeal Refused was created by Navigator
I recently helped a friend to claim PIP, they were subsequently awarded 10 points in the Daily Living Component, and 10 point in the Mobility Component. The person concerned has a lifelong severe hearing condition, and despite this was not awarded points for the following:
1a. Can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided. (0 points) She stated at the assessment the assessor only asked if she could chop food for a meal, and mentioned nothing about cooking, before moving on.
At the Tribunal she stated that she needed to use a timer as an aid, to cook food, as appliance built-in timers were not loud enough for her to hear, thereby using her mobile as timing aid, as it was both volume adjustable, and could go with her if she left the kitchen for any reason. The Tribunal Awarded 0 points for this?
9c. Engaging with other people face to face
DWP assessor stated: 9a. Can engage with other people unaided. (0 points) she stated at the assessment that needed social support to be able to engage with other people. This was despite her son accompanying her to both the assessment and the Tribunal, and remaining in the waiting area, on both occasions. The Tribunal Awarded 0 points for this?
Either of these descriptors would have given her the Enhanced Rate of PIP in the daily living component, and I cannot understand how the Tribunal has therefore not allowed them.
Any comments on this would be most welcome.
Regards Navigator
1a. Can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided. (0 points) She stated at the assessment the assessor only asked if she could chop food for a meal, and mentioned nothing about cooking, before moving on.
At the Tribunal she stated that she needed to use a timer as an aid, to cook food, as appliance built-in timers were not loud enough for her to hear, thereby using her mobile as timing aid, as it was both volume adjustable, and could go with her if she left the kitchen for any reason. The Tribunal Awarded 0 points for this?
9c. Engaging with other people face to face
DWP assessor stated: 9a. Can engage with other people unaided. (0 points) she stated at the assessment that needed social support to be able to engage with other people. This was despite her son accompanying her to both the assessment and the Tribunal, and remaining in the waiting area, on both occasions. The Tribunal Awarded 0 points for this?
Either of these descriptors would have given her the Enhanced Rate of PIP in the daily living component, and I cannot understand how the Tribunal has therefore not allowed them.
Any comments on this would be most welcome.
Regards Navigator
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3 weeks 4 days ago #297288 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic Tribunal Appeal Refused
Hi Navigator
In order for your friend to find out why her appeal was refused, she needs to get hold of the SOR (Statement of Reasons) from the Tribunal Service, which is a record of the entire discussion. That way, you will be able to see whether the Tribunal made any mistake in applying the law. Your friend has one month from the Tribunal hearing to ask for permission to appeal to the Upper Tribunal.
1a) I suspect they didn't count using the timer as an aid, believing many people use timers on their phones regardless of whether they have a severe hearing deficit. (I'm not saying I'm right, or that was the right decision - just that may be their reasoning.)
9c) If the son was in the waiting room and not in the assessment room or in the Tribunal room - it sounds as if they have decided she can actually engage with people face to face. (Again, I am only guessing. It sounds as if they haven't looked at the wider picture - but obviously, I don't know what other information they were given). The issue is not just these two occasions it's actually what they have been told about the rest of her life. Having a severe hearing deficit can be extremely challenging and isolating and lead to depression and anxiety.
The SOR can take some time to arrive, so you may have to appeal without it. Have a look at the Guide to PIP Appeals for further information.
BIS
In order for your friend to find out why her appeal was refused, she needs to get hold of the SOR (Statement of Reasons) from the Tribunal Service, which is a record of the entire discussion. That way, you will be able to see whether the Tribunal made any mistake in applying the law. Your friend has one month from the Tribunal hearing to ask for permission to appeal to the Upper Tribunal.
1a) I suspect they didn't count using the timer as an aid, believing many people use timers on their phones regardless of whether they have a severe hearing deficit. (I'm not saying I'm right, or that was the right decision - just that may be their reasoning.)
9c) If the son was in the waiting room and not in the assessment room or in the Tribunal room - it sounds as if they have decided she can actually engage with people face to face. (Again, I am only guessing. It sounds as if they haven't looked at the wider picture - but obviously, I don't know what other information they were given). The issue is not just these two occasions it's actually what they have been told about the rest of her life. Having a severe hearing deficit can be extremely challenging and isolating and lead to depression and anxiety.
The SOR can take some time to arrive, so you may have to appeal without it. Have a look at the Guide to PIP Appeals for further information.
BIS
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3 weeks 3 days ago #297331 by Navigator
Replied by Navigator on topic Tribunal Appeal Refused
Hi BIS,
It would appear that for 1a) they seemed to imply that a timer is not needed to cook a simple meal? I thought anything could be used as an aid? And therefore this should have been allowed, Also they keep stating a simple meal for one, but the descriptor doesn't state for one, or defines what is classed as a simple meal?
As for 9c) Her adult son has grown up with his mothers conditions, and is her support before during and after a lot of the time, as the anxiety they cause her during face to face interactions, the Tribunal seem to be implying that because she scored 8 points for Communicating Verbally, this covers Face to face as well?
As you are aware anyone going to Tribunal has had enough of the DWP by this stage, and I'm not sure she can cope with appealing to the Upper Tier Tribunal, and if they can remove any award making her have to start all over again?
Regards
Navigator
It would appear that for 1a) they seemed to imply that a timer is not needed to cook a simple meal? I thought anything could be used as an aid? And therefore this should have been allowed, Also they keep stating a simple meal for one, but the descriptor doesn't state for one, or defines what is classed as a simple meal?
As for 9c) Her adult son has grown up with his mothers conditions, and is her support before during and after a lot of the time, as the anxiety they cause her during face to face interactions, the Tribunal seem to be implying that because she scored 8 points for Communicating Verbally, this covers Face to face as well?
As you are aware anyone going to Tribunal has had enough of the DWP by this stage, and I'm not sure she can cope with appealing to the Upper Tier Tribunal, and if they can remove any award making her have to start all over again?
Regards
Navigator
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3 weeks 2 days ago #297343 by BIS
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Replied by BIS on topic Tribunal Appeal Refused
Hi Navigator
I can understand why she might not want to appeal.
If you look at our Guide to PIP claims and reviews - it does explain what is meant about cooking a simple meal on page 33 and it is for one person. It also explains about aids and it is not any aid. It has to be one that is used because of a person's disability not because of convenience. I just don't think they accepted that it was because of her severe hearing deficit and that is possibly a question for the Upper Tribunal.
I have never sat on a Tribunal panel, but I think their reasoning not to award anything for communicating face-to-face is bizarre, and I would fight it. I think the Upper Tribunal would say it was unlawful.
If a First Tier Tribunal Panel is considering reducing an award they give the claimant a chance to withdraw the appeal.The Upper Tier will either reject the appeal and say the First Tier Tribunal acted lawfully or they will say they acted unlawfully and tell them to look at it again.
If your friend reconsiders her decision - she can ask for a paper-based decision - saying that she is too traumatised to attend in person. They may or may not agree.
BIS
I can understand why she might not want to appeal.
If you look at our Guide to PIP claims and reviews - it does explain what is meant about cooking a simple meal on page 33 and it is for one person. It also explains about aids and it is not any aid. It has to be one that is used because of a person's disability not because of convenience. I just don't think they accepted that it was because of her severe hearing deficit and that is possibly a question for the Upper Tribunal.
I have never sat on a Tribunal panel, but I think their reasoning not to award anything for communicating face-to-face is bizarre, and I would fight it. I think the Upper Tribunal would say it was unlawful.
If a First Tier Tribunal Panel is considering reducing an award they give the claimant a chance to withdraw the appeal.The Upper Tier will either reject the appeal and say the First Tier Tribunal acted lawfully or they will say they acted unlawfully and tell them to look at it again.
If your friend reconsiders her decision - she can ask for a paper-based decision - saying that she is too traumatised to attend in person. They may or may not agree.
BIS
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3 weeks 4 hours ago #297362 by Navigator
Replied by Navigator on topic Tribunal Appeal Refused
HI BIZ,
I would say the timer was because of her severe hearing disability, as normal in bult appliance timers are simply not loud enough, for her to hear as they can be affected by any background noise such as TV / Radio.
I agree with you on the face to face it is amazing to think that someone with a life long severe hearing condition would not be anxious, and stressed when interacting with people face to face, and support is vital. I am just struggling to work out how I can prove the Tribunal acted unlawfully, except to quote, the following case as an example. - Engagement is needed
An upper tribunal judge has ruled that ‘isolated and specific’ examples of being able to interact with
other people, such as being able to talk to the health professional at medical assessment or to staff
in a local shop you go to regularly are not enough to prevent you scoring points. In this case the
claimant went to the pub and a chip shop every day, but said she avoided any engagement with
other people and would move away if anyone stood next to her. She was able to respond to the
PIP heath professional’s questions without prompting and had adequate eye contact and rapport. The judge held that simply going to the pub and the chip shop or responding to questions from a
health professional was not evidence that the claimant engaged socially with other people or would
be able to engage with people she did not know well.
Kind regards
Navigator
I would say the timer was because of her severe hearing disability, as normal in bult appliance timers are simply not loud enough, for her to hear as they can be affected by any background noise such as TV / Radio.
I agree with you on the face to face it is amazing to think that someone with a life long severe hearing condition would not be anxious, and stressed when interacting with people face to face, and support is vital. I am just struggling to work out how I can prove the Tribunal acted unlawfully, except to quote, the following case as an example. - Engagement is needed
An upper tribunal judge has ruled that ‘isolated and specific’ examples of being able to interact with
other people, such as being able to talk to the health professional at medical assessment or to staff
in a local shop you go to regularly are not enough to prevent you scoring points. In this case the
claimant went to the pub and a chip shop every day, but said she avoided any engagement with
other people and would move away if anyone stood next to her. She was able to respond to the
PIP heath professional’s questions without prompting and had adequate eye contact and rapport. The judge held that simply going to the pub and the chip shop or responding to questions from a
health professional was not evidence that the claimant engaged socially with other people or would
be able to engage with people she did not know well.
Kind regards
Navigator
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2 weeks 6 days ago #297377 by BIS
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Replied by BIS on topic Tribunal Appeal Refused
Hi Navigator
You are not expected to 'know the law'. Your example is a good one. That will be enough. The Tribunal will choose a different argument if necessary. Yours is to query the fact that it made no sense to say that she needs communication help - but then not award marks for face-to-face interaction. If your friend wants to - go for it.
BIS
You are not expected to 'know the law'. Your example is a good one. That will be enough. The Tribunal will choose a different argument if necessary. Yours is to query the fact that it made no sense to say that she needs communication help - but then not award marks for face-to-face interaction. If your friend wants to - go for it.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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