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Is it even worth appealing pip?
- beccajayne
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2 weeks 2 days ago #299223 by beccajayne
Is it even worth appealing pip? was created by beccajayne
I question it because I've read notes on this site and was very clear on my MR where I felt I should score points.
My assessor's report seemed to be repeating general things across a number of areas, like good memory, communicated well, should be able to do these things etc. Whole experience is that I was giving information but the message coming back is 'can't hear you.'
Is this usual or is there something fundamentally wrong with my claim, that's what I'm worried about and it's triggered my ocd questioning. The evidence for my conditions is around 6 or 7 years old now but the last 5 years has been so difficult to get a gp appointment plus I have chronic fatigue and so each day goes by without doing it, especially as they have all these rules about what time of day you can phone, different for different things and I can't remember them all. I just expect to be able to call during working hours (I know that sounds difficult I don't mean it to)
My point is I don't have current, in the last few months, diagnoses. I have conditions that have been diagnosed and some told to me by gp's. The assessor said I don't go to a chronic fatigue clinic. it's never been mentioned by the gp's, they just do repeated blood tests (not been able to do that recently) and tell me I have to pace myself and have I heard of spoon theory, etc. They are kind but never been told of any specific services.
Do I put all this in my appeal or is it not worth appealing until I have all new evidence which is going to be overwhelming to get in view of anxiety going anywhere medical and fatigue in executing it all. Or do I just reiterate all my problems again, state where I think the assessor has overlooked what I've said etc? Is it worth it? I just want some points I'm not even bothered about the award, I'm more upset by zeros across the board when I've had and got significant problems, even if they would not meet the level for an award.
My assessor's report seemed to be repeating general things across a number of areas, like good memory, communicated well, should be able to do these things etc. Whole experience is that I was giving information but the message coming back is 'can't hear you.'
Is this usual or is there something fundamentally wrong with my claim, that's what I'm worried about and it's triggered my ocd questioning. The evidence for my conditions is around 6 or 7 years old now but the last 5 years has been so difficult to get a gp appointment plus I have chronic fatigue and so each day goes by without doing it, especially as they have all these rules about what time of day you can phone, different for different things and I can't remember them all. I just expect to be able to call during working hours (I know that sounds difficult I don't mean it to)
My point is I don't have current, in the last few months, diagnoses. I have conditions that have been diagnosed and some told to me by gp's. The assessor said I don't go to a chronic fatigue clinic. it's never been mentioned by the gp's, they just do repeated blood tests (not been able to do that recently) and tell me I have to pace myself and have I heard of spoon theory, etc. They are kind but never been told of any specific services.
Do I put all this in my appeal or is it not worth appealing until I have all new evidence which is going to be overwhelming to get in view of anxiety going anywhere medical and fatigue in executing it all. Or do I just reiterate all my problems again, state where I think the assessor has overlooked what I've said etc? Is it worth it? I just want some points I'm not even bothered about the award, I'm more upset by zeros across the board when I've had and got significant problems, even if they would not meet the level for an award.
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- BIS
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2 weeks 1 day ago #299291 by BIS
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Replied by BIS on topic Is it even worth appealing pip?
Hi beccajayne
I'm sorry that this has happened to you. I can't tell you whether you should appeal - that is something you are going to have to decide for yourself.
The DWP are a bit hung up on people having recent evidence, but I've certainly helped someone get PIP who hadn't seen her GP about her condition for twenty years! We did, however, get an up-to-date letter to confirm their diagnosis.
It doesn't matter that your diagnoses are 7 years old, but it doesn't help if you can't say that you have seen or talked to a GP or other medical professional in five years, because you've nothing to show that things have got worse. Now you can argue that because of Covid access has been difficult, but as they have decided you have good memory and communicated well they are not going to believe that you couldn't make a doctor's appointment to at least speak to someone. I get what you're saying - but this is the DWP. You say you're doctors are kind - so can you get to see them and get an up to date letter. Think about what you need to discuss before you go - bullet pointed list. Ask about other services and shut down the spoon theory - that has become the bain of many people's lives as the DWP think that works for everyone - and it doesn't. It was very personal to the person who first mentioned it.
When you originally submitted your claim - did you submit any evidence from a family member - who can vouch for you or any professionals? If you didn't, you are going to struggle at Tribunal. There's more chance of you winning there, but they still want to see some sort of evidence outside of yours. So if you can get it - you can add it in. All you need a doctor to say is that your problems are ongoing and confirm your exhaustion, pain etc etc.
It is very common for the assessors to say that someone has a good memory and communicated well. Did you have your assessment recorded? If you didn't think you responded in the way the assessor said - then challenge it - and without calling them a liar, saying they are mistaken and they couldn't see you so they were not aware of how tired you got, the pain you were experiencing etc.
Have a good look at the Guide to PIP Appeals and see what advice that has before you decide. Also, go back through the guide - do you think you missed anything? You've clearly worked hard on this but we're all capable of missing stuff out. Als,o look at the Guide to challenging a medical report - to make sure that you've challenge what they said adequately. benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/pip
If you have any other questions, come back and ask. I know this is daunting. If you don't want to go to appeal as you got zero points you can always put in for a new application and give it another go.
BIS
I'm sorry that this has happened to you. I can't tell you whether you should appeal - that is something you are going to have to decide for yourself.
The DWP are a bit hung up on people having recent evidence, but I've certainly helped someone get PIP who hadn't seen her GP about her condition for twenty years! We did, however, get an up-to-date letter to confirm their diagnosis.
It doesn't matter that your diagnoses are 7 years old, but it doesn't help if you can't say that you have seen or talked to a GP or other medical professional in five years, because you've nothing to show that things have got worse. Now you can argue that because of Covid access has been difficult, but as they have decided you have good memory and communicated well they are not going to believe that you couldn't make a doctor's appointment to at least speak to someone. I get what you're saying - but this is the DWP. You say you're doctors are kind - so can you get to see them and get an up to date letter. Think about what you need to discuss before you go - bullet pointed list. Ask about other services and shut down the spoon theory - that has become the bain of many people's lives as the DWP think that works for everyone - and it doesn't. It was very personal to the person who first mentioned it.
When you originally submitted your claim - did you submit any evidence from a family member - who can vouch for you or any professionals? If you didn't, you are going to struggle at Tribunal. There's more chance of you winning there, but they still want to see some sort of evidence outside of yours. So if you can get it - you can add it in. All you need a doctor to say is that your problems are ongoing and confirm your exhaustion, pain etc etc.
It is very common for the assessors to say that someone has a good memory and communicated well. Did you have your assessment recorded? If you didn't think you responded in the way the assessor said - then challenge it - and without calling them a liar, saying they are mistaken and they couldn't see you so they were not aware of how tired you got, the pain you were experiencing etc.
Have a good look at the Guide to PIP Appeals and see what advice that has before you decide. Also, go back through the guide - do you think you missed anything? You've clearly worked hard on this but we're all capable of missing stuff out. Als,o look at the Guide to challenging a medical report - to make sure that you've challenge what they said adequately. benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/pip
If you have any other questions, come back and ask. I know this is daunting. If you don't want to go to appeal as you got zero points you can always put in for a new application and give it another go.
BIS
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- beccajayne
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1 week 4 days ago #299523 by beccajayne
Replied by beccajayne on topic Is it even worth appealing pip?
Thanks for your reply BIS.
I'm struggling with things today so this is brief for now as I just need to spend 15 mins looking at my appeal. Quick couple of questions if I may.
Due to my health problems this feels like an overwhelming mountain to get this appeal done in the next 2 weeks (which completes the month), if I call and request extra time are they likely to listen to reasons and / or grant the time?
On the subject of socialising the main response from the assessor is that I visit my relative daily (who happens to offer a lot of support and is 1 minute away by car and where I feel more comfortable than alone. She also cooks when I'm struggling. That relative was walking to me but her mobility is becoming worse, although she is likely to in the warmer weather). This was given as a reason that I have ability to socialise by the assessor (and 'go out most days' even though I'm doing that when I should be working or tending to my own home and life, but going there because unwell). I do have ability to socialise but I don't due to no longer finding it beneficial, people are harsh in general (not everyone), but having ability to socialise (mask) is different to avoiding it all the time because it's psychologically painful and because so many health problems are a barrier to it also.
I work for someone I've known in a very long time and they will offer support if I'm struggling and I see them infrequently and work remotely. But this was given as reason that I have no problems socialising.
Also that I can talk to a shop keeper or doctor's receptionist. Due to my health I rarely talk to either even when I'm supposed to be booking appointments I avoid it. If they are stern with me in any way it really affects me.
I don't visit friends or family or meet for lunches, coffee, or have visitors. I panic when my cleaner is due to visit.
On the subject of socialising I wonder is it worth appealing this section?
What you've asked about submitting evidence outside of mine, with ptsd I am avoiding all medical tests and appointments, the evidence unfortunately is that. Which means there isn't much. I asked for a doctor's letter which would detail the offers I've had for blood tests etc, and the anxiety expressed on telephone appointments, but reception told me that would cost £150 (and unlikely to be done by the deadline). I have a psychologist letter confirming appointments. Maybe I should pay that and have the doctor go through some notes to confirm what I'm saying. Relative could write a letter I suppose, I don't know how that carries weight when it's a relative, seems such a small thing but they would do it.
Should I correct inaccuracies like the assessor not being able to spell a condition and even writing it out as if it's another condition entirely. I know that is not the basis of the appeal but I'm a little shocked that a nurse (the assessor stated she was a nurse) was unable to correctly spell and identify the conditions I told her about.
I'm struggling with things today so this is brief for now as I just need to spend 15 mins looking at my appeal. Quick couple of questions if I may.
Due to my health problems this feels like an overwhelming mountain to get this appeal done in the next 2 weeks (which completes the month), if I call and request extra time are they likely to listen to reasons and / or grant the time?
On the subject of socialising the main response from the assessor is that I visit my relative daily (who happens to offer a lot of support and is 1 minute away by car and where I feel more comfortable than alone. She also cooks when I'm struggling. That relative was walking to me but her mobility is becoming worse, although she is likely to in the warmer weather). This was given as a reason that I have ability to socialise by the assessor (and 'go out most days' even though I'm doing that when I should be working or tending to my own home and life, but going there because unwell). I do have ability to socialise but I don't due to no longer finding it beneficial, people are harsh in general (not everyone), but having ability to socialise (mask) is different to avoiding it all the time because it's psychologically painful and because so many health problems are a barrier to it also.
I work for someone I've known in a very long time and they will offer support if I'm struggling and I see them infrequently and work remotely. But this was given as reason that I have no problems socialising.
Also that I can talk to a shop keeper or doctor's receptionist. Due to my health I rarely talk to either even when I'm supposed to be booking appointments I avoid it. If they are stern with me in any way it really affects me.
I don't visit friends or family or meet for lunches, coffee, or have visitors. I panic when my cleaner is due to visit.
On the subject of socialising I wonder is it worth appealing this section?
What you've asked about submitting evidence outside of mine, with ptsd I am avoiding all medical tests and appointments, the evidence unfortunately is that. Which means there isn't much. I asked for a doctor's letter which would detail the offers I've had for blood tests etc, and the anxiety expressed on telephone appointments, but reception told me that would cost £150 (and unlikely to be done by the deadline). I have a psychologist letter confirming appointments. Maybe I should pay that and have the doctor go through some notes to confirm what I'm saying. Relative could write a letter I suppose, I don't know how that carries weight when it's a relative, seems such a small thing but they would do it.
Should I correct inaccuracies like the assessor not being able to spell a condition and even writing it out as if it's another condition entirely. I know that is not the basis of the appeal but I'm a little shocked that a nurse (the assessor stated she was a nurse) was unable to correctly spell and identify the conditions I told her about.
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1 week 4 days ago #299540 by Chris
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Replied by Chris on topic Is it even worth appealing pip?
Hi becca,
You can contact the DWP helpline and ask for an extension - they will usually send you new papers with an additional 2 weeks on to complete it by, and ensure it arrives on time by the deadline date quoted on the paperwork.
In relation to your socialising, me personally, I always find it's worth appealing if you haven't been listened too properly, or they haven't taken into consideration the full effects that your health has on your lifestyle.
I also corrected the inaccuracies on my appeal, there was 27 of them over 11 pages that were wrong, and only 4 or 5 correct - a lot was lies - so it's definitely worth it. I typed mine up and taped it to the paperwork because it's too painful for me to write much anymore.
Hopefully this little bit of help can guide you towards what you're wanting to do - but as always, it's worth following the guides on the website.
Chris.
You can contact the DWP helpline and ask for an extension - they will usually send you new papers with an additional 2 weeks on to complete it by, and ensure it arrives on time by the deadline date quoted on the paperwork.
In relation to your socialising, me personally, I always find it's worth appealing if you haven't been listened too properly, or they haven't taken into consideration the full effects that your health has on your lifestyle.
I also corrected the inaccuracies on my appeal, there was 27 of them over 11 pages that were wrong, and only 4 or 5 correct - a lot was lies - so it's definitely worth it. I typed mine up and taped it to the paperwork because it's too painful for me to write much anymore.
Hopefully this little bit of help can guide you towards what you're wanting to do - but as always, it's worth following the guides on the website.
Chris.
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- Wendy Woo
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1 week 2 days ago #299615 by Wendy Woo
Replied by Wendy Woo on topic Is it even worth appealing pip?
Hello beccajayne,
If you can get the relative who helps you to write a letter explaining the things they do for you, it may support your case, as a letter from my husband detailing the help he gives our son to get up and get to work seemed to make a big difference when we appealed a decision last year. Maybe a letter from your employer would help too, since you say they also support you and allow you to work remotely - in my opinion, work is different from socialising, although assessors don't seem to see it that way. My son didn't have any recent medical evidence either, as his diagnosis was made many years ago when he was child.
Don't waste time or energy criticising spelling, etc. - the assessor's ignorance may be annoying, but you need to concentrate your efforts on showing that you meet the PIP criteria. Since PIP is supposed to be all about the extra help you need, letters from the people who give this help ought to be taken into consideration and, sometimes, I think they are.
Best wishes,
Wendy Woo
If you can get the relative who helps you to write a letter explaining the things they do for you, it may support your case, as a letter from my husband detailing the help he gives our son to get up and get to work seemed to make a big difference when we appealed a decision last year. Maybe a letter from your employer would help too, since you say they also support you and allow you to work remotely - in my opinion, work is different from socialising, although assessors don't seem to see it that way. My son didn't have any recent medical evidence either, as his diagnosis was made many years ago when he was child.
Don't waste time or energy criticising spelling, etc. - the assessor's ignorance may be annoying, but you need to concentrate your efforts on showing that you meet the PIP criteria. Since PIP is supposed to be all about the extra help you need, letters from the people who give this help ought to be taken into consideration and, sometimes, I think they are.
Best wishes,
Wendy Woo
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1 week 1 day ago #299652 by BIS
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Replied by BIS on topic Is it even worth appealing pip?
Hi Beccajayne
If you've decded to do an appeal - get it in now. It doesn't have to be perfect. Write on it that you reserve the right to send in more evidence as it becomes available. This is allowed. You are able to submit information up to two weeks before the Tribunal takes place. (and a lot of people do). I don't know how soon yours could be, but you may have to wait up to 52 weeks.
You absolutely should argue the socialising part. That assessor is talking rubbish. Explain it, just as you have done here. They are supposed to understand that just because you see one familiar person it doesn't mean that proves you can socialise. And that isn't socialising. You go because you need support, which isn't the same as just being able to socialise. I despair of the ignorance of some of these assessors.
Don't focus on the assessors mistakes such as spelling or grammar - irritating as it is - no one will care. Concentrate on fighting her opinions as far as the points are concerned.
Best of luck.
BIS
If you've decded to do an appeal - get it in now. It doesn't have to be perfect. Write on it that you reserve the right to send in more evidence as it becomes available. This is allowed. You are able to submit information up to two weeks before the Tribunal takes place. (and a lot of people do). I don't know how soon yours could be, but you may have to wait up to 52 weeks.
You absolutely should argue the socialising part. That assessor is talking rubbish. Explain it, just as you have done here. They are supposed to understand that just because you see one familiar person it doesn't mean that proves you can socialise. And that isn't socialising. You go because you need support, which isn't the same as just being able to socialise. I despair of the ignorance of some of these assessors.
Don't focus on the assessors mistakes such as spelling or grammar - irritating as it is - no one will care. Concentrate on fighting her opinions as far as the points are concerned.
Best of luck.
BIS
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