moving from IR ESA (WRAG) to UC LCW

Will do, thank you so much David!

Hi David,

I have a video interview. I have been asked to provide accounts for the past 12 months. Normally I don't have a problem with that: the DWP asked me for this before twice, until about two years ago.

My question is, why would the UC team want to see what I have been doing for the past 12 months, since this was under ESA, not UC? To me it seems they just want to make things harder. Or is this standard fare? What do you think?

I'll paste below the other things I'll be asked for, but maybe they just include stuff that they don't ask for, or at least not all of it. Can you have a look and let me know what you think? Thanks!

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About your appointment

At your self-employment interview, we'll decide if you're 'gainfully self-employed'.

You will need to show evidence that your self-employment work is:

your main job or main source of income
expected to make profit
getting regular work
organised, for example you keep records of your business activities
What you need to bring

Bring as much evidence as you can to your appointment.

Business details
You'll need to show evidence of your business details, for example:

business name
business address
the date you first started doing business
Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR) from HMRC, if you have one
VAT registration number, if you're registered for VAT
Business records
You'll need to show evidence of your business records, for example:

invoices
receipts
bank statements
tax returns
records of customers, suppliers or contracts
Business activities
You'll need to show evidence of your business activities, for example:

your business website
business social media accounts
any marketing activities or materials
a business plan or portfolio
Other evidence to support your claim
You can also show additional evidence to support your claim, for example:

letters from HMRC and other official sources
payslips, if you work for someone else as well as being self-employed
business certificates, such as for insurance or professional accreditation
If you cannot show enough evidence, you may have to look for other work in order to claim Universal Credit. This will depend on your circumstances.

Hi David,

''Also as you have LCW you cannot be labelled as " gainfully self employed ". ''

What if I 'tick all the boxes', except for the low profit (£100-200 a month)?
I.e. :

I have been doing my self assessment with HRMC for the last several years;

my book keeping is good enough;

I am a registered business (as sole trader);

etc... I ask this because the UC team seems to be completely ignoring that I ha the WRAG when I moved to UC, or so it seems. I have a video interview tomorrow and it wrote this in my journal:

'' Business details You'll need to show evidence of your
business details, for example:
business name
business address
the date you first started doing business
Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR) from
HMRC, if you have one
VAT registration number, if you're
registered for VAT
Business records You'll need to show evidence of your
business records, for example:
invoices
receipts
bank statements
tax returns
records of customers, suppliers or
contracts
Business activities You'll need to show evidence of your
business activities, for example:
your business website
business social media accounts
any marketing activities or materials
a business plan or portfolio
Other evidence to
support your claim
You can also show additional evidence to
support your claim, for example:
letters from HMRC and other official
sources
payslips, if you work for someone else as
well as being self-employed
business certificates, such as for insurance
or professional accreditation
If you cannot show enough evidence, you may have to look for other
work in order to claim Universal Credit. This will depend on your
circumstances. ''

I can supply all this evidence. My understanding is that even so, I should not be deemed 'gainfully self-employed' because I had the WRAG, am I correct?

Thanks!

Hi Gary,

Thank you. I have of course no problem showing any evidence I can show to the UC team. But since they have been asking for things that don't seem to be in line with what they should ask, for example they asked for fit notes, or writing in the Claimant Commitment that I need to spend 35 hours a week with my work coach, it seemed to me that I was being treated simply as someone capable of work.

I don't mind getting less money, even. My prerogative is really to keep a roof over my head, I can deal with less money or most other things as I am quite thrifty and don't waste money around, even when I have more. But I can't work 8 hours a day or lead a 'normal' life as I would be expected, and since this was understood under ESA, I'd expect it is understood under UC as well, unless I am reassessed. So it's not as if I believe things can never change, as chaos is all around us, but I do expect that they do things by the book, within the guidelines they have.

But if they want to apply a MIF, - because they can -, then I have absolutely no problem with that. To me it all boils down to the question: 'is this allowed by policies or law?', which I of course apply to myself.

Further, David previously wrote that I should not be found 'gainfully employed', and UC arrived at this conclusion, which seems correct.

But anyways, in a way, things are moving forward, and in others, they are stuck to where they were, specifically:

I have submitted my income and prepared accounts, receipts everything, but so far they accepted my word for it as I simply entered sales and expenses in my Journal, as in a balance sheet, with just two clicks, which surprised me as I had prepared a lot more evidence. But of course that's never wasted time, as this evidence I am aware can be asked my UC at any time, or even by HMRC.

After I submitted my income for the first month, the message about a payment having been sent, appeared. I had already thought 'yeah, right, I am not going to get the money unless I accept the claimants commitment', which I still have not accepted as it does not seem in line with my LCW status, for example it asks me to 'look and prepare for work' and for 35 hours a week. That this is wrong was confirmed yesterday by Citizens Advice (however I also learn a lot in these excellent forums, which certainly are worth every penny of the very modest subscription fee. Excellent guides and information!).

Well to my great surprise, the first payment for the month was in my bank account this morning, and I still haven't accepted my cc. I continue to try to wrap my head around all this but I am going to figure it all out sooner or later. All that matters to me is that I know where I stand.

The CC also says I must accept it by 2nd of February, so in short I just keep stating the same points David made before: I moved to UC from IR ESA with the WRAG and by law this status is carried across to UC and a fit note is not required.

Oh well. Worst case scenario, I think, is that UC will be stopped because I didn't accept the CC, and request a mandatory reconsideration and dispute the closure at the tribunal. I have done it before, and now there's more help available, not less. So I am not overly worried.

I was almost accepting the CC as it is, thinking I could dispute it later, but Citizens Advice said, no, don't. So I won't.

Thank you so much to all of you for these great forums and all your thoughts and suggestions! (sorry about the long message!)