Do you have to declare to o Uc £700 pounds of seedling some stuff on eBay ?

Chris wrote:

I honestly didn't know that buying and selling on Ebay for small things made a difference, because any money I get from ebay, I transfer straight to my bank account, and incorporate it into things like shopping, or pet food for example. I thought you were allowed 30 items per year or £1000 and HMRC done all the tax stuff. I spent in excess of 20 years working with Finance, and I'm lost by everything nowadays.

There's a lot of confusion / misinformation in general on the subject:-

- If you sell something that you bought or made with intent to sell (ie, trading), or are selling a service (eg, "gig economy" delivery driver, getting advertising income from a Youtube channel), that's income and needs to be reported to both HMRC (Income Tax / NI) and DWP (out of work benefits). Eg, if you buy items to resell or make home-made jewellery with intent to sell to make a profit, that's income.

- If you sell personal possessions (eg, used DVD's, electronic items, clothes, furniture, etc), that isn't "income" at all (for either HMRC or DWP), it's capital. The "selling something for more than you bought must be income" is also false for genuine personal possession. Eg, a gold necklace bought for £500 in 2016, worn for 10 years then sold for £1,000 in 2026 is still capital. DWP will treat the proceeds as capital vs means-tested benefits whilst HMRC are only interested in the sale of personal possessions if it exceeds £6k, and uses up more than your annual Capital Gains Tax limit (£3k) and isn't one of several things specifically excluded (your main home & car, gifts to spouses, anything with a lifespan of less than 50 years, etc). You're talking rare collections or secondary / investment property (bought for £150k sold for £250k) that needs special "value appreciation" HMRC CGT reporting. It's only treated as income if you look like a trader with a pattern of buying to sell without using it.

- The "£1,000 Trading Allowance or 30 sales" thing is a HMRC specific (not DWP) reporting threshold at which online platforms like Ebay, Vinted, etc, will auto-report you to HMRC as a *potential* trader for exceeding this. But that doesn't necessarily mean you suddenly become one or that sales over £1,000 will be treated as income by either HMRC or DWP. Eg, if you bought a car for £10k and sell it used on Ebay 5 years later for £4k, DWP will count that £4k as capital (savings) vs means-tested benefits, but it's clearly not income to either DWP or HMRC by any measure despite being 4x over the £1k reporting limit. Likewise, a house clearance after a relative has died naturally involves selling significantly more stuff than normal, but if you can show proof (Death Certificate, Will, Estate Distribution Summary, etc) that you're selling inherited items it will still not be treated as income for a one-off life event, even if you sell £5,000 from that estate in that year.

- Exceeding the 30 sales / £1,000 per year threshold is just the point at which it starts to show up on HMRC's radar and "We noticed you sold a lot this year, what's going on here?" questions start being asked. Being unable to explain / account for regular auctions involving selling "New" items or stuff that looks "home-made gig economy", may get assumed to be undeclared income. However, with accurate record keeping, ie, keeping receipts showing expensive sold items such as a car, jewellery, etc, were bought to use personally years ago can clearly show what isn't trading income. (NB: It's a good idea to always keep receipts of valuable stuff anyway purely for insurance purposes).

www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-need-to...rom-online-platforms
www.gov.uk/guidance/selling-goods-or-ser...n-a-digital-platform
www.gov.uk/guidance/universal-credit-and-earnings
www.gov.uk/guidance/universal-credit-mon...ings-and-investments
www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax-personal-possessions

tl:dr - For DWP: the only actual legally required reporting is if you were earning money whilst claiming benefits, or if the sale of personal possessions on Ebay pushed your capital over the £6k lower means-tested threshold. For HMRC: If you exceed the +£1k / +30 sales auto-reporting threshold, Ebay will tell HMRC, but it's a good idea to be seen to voluntarily declare it anyway and it won't be treated as income if you can demonstrate you're selling your own items / are dealing with an inheritance / at the very least most sold stuff is "used" and you don't look like a fly-by-night trader running an undeclared businesses trying to pass off +£5-£50k pa sales of obviously shrink-wrapped items as "personal possessions". Tens of millions of people just selling used items under £1k / fewer than 30 auctions don't need to say or do anything, even if they're claiming benefits and many low-level sellers often over-worry on the new reporting changes. The key to pleasing HMRC is simply good record keeping, ie, keep PDF receipts of jewellery, electronic items, furniture, car, etc, you're likely to resell at a later date will eliminate all doubt.

''I honestly didn't know that buying and selling on Ebay for small things made a difference, because any money I get from ebay, I transfer straight to my bank account, and incorporate it into things like shopping''.

Sorry but what's the part you people don't understand? If it's profit, it's income. It doesn't matter how you spend it, if you spent it right away, if you spend it a year later.

I have been self employed on ebay since about 2009, and been doing my tax accounts every year, no matter how 'little' I earned. As HMRC says, if you are self employed, you must do your self assessment, -even if you didn't earn anything-, - if you are self employed -.

It's pretty simple:

1. have you sold something?
2. if you have made a profit, it's INCOME, and you have to declare it when you apply for benefits. If I sold something and made £ 100 profit, when the DWP asks me how much money I have, I include the £ 100. It doesn't matter if it was for something 'small' , 'big', ' medium sized', if I sold an hill and made £ 100 profit, I have to report it to the DWP if I apply for benefits, AND in addition:
3. if I am -self employed- I have to do a self assessment with HMRC on its website.

How do you know if you are self employed? If you make ANY profit REGULARLY, you are self employed. 'Regularly' doesn't mean it must be like a monthly salary: self employment earnings go up or down, because there's more risk involved than if you work for someone and get a salary.

So if you sold one item one year, and one in the other, and you made a couple tenners, you don't have to report anything to anyone.

But if you sold these two items and made £ 800 - profit- (which means the cost of the sale minus the cost of the item) you MUST report it to the DWP if you are getting benefits. Even if it doesn't change the amount of benefit you get. As they say: if you aren't sure, tell us anyways.

AND, in addition, if you are - self employed- , you have to report it to HMRC.

I honestly don't know what's all this fake news stuff people talk about. It seems all pretty clear if you read credible sources such as the DWP or the HMRC website.

It seems to me, rather, a kind of denial. 'It's small stuff', 'it's irregular', 'it's infrequent', etc etc.

Moreover, if one gets used to that thinking, it all becomes a habit, so for example you start selling more, more frequently, earn more profit. If the DWP or even the HMRC investigates you, there's consequences.

But hey, I am not trying to give a sermon here, what other people do is none of my business. I am just writing this because I see people saying: it's not clear, I am not sure, it's small, it's irregular, etc etc.

Amen.

Hi David,

in fact, in the link you mentioned elsewhere, there's, I think, relevant info for this post, regardless if one is self employed or not:

''If you trade on online platforms - such as eBay or Vinted - you must report this income.

3.3 Selling unwanted personal items

If you only sell items occasionally and are not trading - for example, selling unwanted personal belongings on platforms like eBay or Vinted - you do not need to report this as income. Instead, the money you receive will be treated as ‘capital’ and will count towards Universal Credit money, savings and investments limits. (so it means you should STILL report it, but as capital, not income.)


----

BUT, the above assumes one has made - no profit -. So if I bought a guitar for £ 800 and then I resell it for £ 800 -or less- this would still be income that the DWP categorizes as capital.

But if I resell the guitar for £ 1100, and I say nothing about the £ 300 I made, then basically I am defrauding the DWP, because I am not reporting the correct income.

That's really my point. I see many people asking 'should I declare X money to the DWP' ?

It seems to me that they are really saying: 'I made some money by reselling something I had, for more than I paid it for. Can I just shrug it off and move on, and behave as it were a trivial detail?'.

Think about it, if one really has sold something for the same price it was bought for, or even made a loss, why would they ask the question in the first place?

But even assuming they meant that they sold a possession that bore no profit or even made a loss, for the DWP that's still capital.

So it's either profit - and - capital, or capital only. So yeah one has to declare it in any cases.

Perhaps, if it's only capital, and one's total capital doesn't reach or exceeds £ 6000, I can do away with the reporting, but ONLY if it's capital, not if it's income, i.e. profit made by whatever sales.

I choose to report my capital even if it's below £ 6000. And if it goes over, then I should absolutely report it as the £ 4.35 is applied for every £ 250 over £ 6000.

Of course, you know all that already... just saying.

In short, we might as well say that any additional money is either: capital, OR capital AND income.

Looks like it's never 'nothing'. I even report any cash I have.

I really never want to rub the DWP off the wrong ways, ever. When they do things wrong, I'll dispute it until kingdom come, but equally, I want to make sure I don't break any rules and that I don't do anything wrong myself.

After all, my rent, and more, is getting paid. Seems to be quite daft to get into problems with the DWP for a bit more money. Or even a lot of it.