× Members

URGENT ADVICE NEEDED PLEASE Benefit Fraud? ESA

  • Jane
  • Topic Author
10 years 5 months ago #126203 by Jane
Hello,
I am new to this forum and have joined to ask for some advice because I'm in a very panicked state regarding a complex personal situation with overpayments. I have found out I have accrued savings of over £16,000 in savings, and it's been going on for some time.

[Background info] I have been signed off work since 2009 due to severe mental health problems.
I have been claiming ESA, HB, CTB and DLA since 2010, however since 2012 I have chosen not to claim HB or CTB, so have been claiming ESA (Support Group) and DLA (High Rate Care, Low Rate Mobility).

When I first started my claim, I provided all the required details to the DWP, including all of my savings (I was actually in debt at the time). I was very ill and was heavily medicated and was under the care of a mental health crisis team. I also just recently split up with my boyfriend, but we continued to live together as joint tenants (he was my friend and carer) and I of course informed the DWP of this (even supplying an additional letter stating that he was my ex). Due to my psychiatric problems, I have always been immensely paranoid about claiming benefits, and have often felt guilty for claiming anything - this has lead to me 1) worrying about LTAHW despite separate bedrooms etc and asking my carer to move out as of May this year after years of living together; 2) worrying about spending money and therefore depriving myself of essentials 3) Not claiming HB for 3 years because I was worried I shouldn't be claiming any benefits. Not claiming travel expenses back from hospital for the same reason. 4) Being too scared to call the DWP (my support workers have always had to report a change of address on my behalf, for example).

Perhaps it is because I am in the Support Group, but I have never been contacted by the DWP for any review of my claim, aside from the occasional health questionnaire.

In late 2011, I realized that I had accumulated quite a bit of savings, from unspent benefits. I was receiving HB at the time, plus ESA plus Severe Disability Premium, and this was easy to do as I don't spend much money and don't leave the house much. The amount was about £10,000 in December 2011. I sought advice from CAB who told me I should inform the DWP because of a tariff income of £6000. I drafted the letter. Then I showed it to my new support workers (who specialise in mental health and benefits and tenancies) who told me that I did not need to send it because the tariff income didn't apply to ESA, and I only ever needed to worry if I accumulated savings of over £16,000.
I then moved flat. Knowing that I had sufficient savings, I felt it unnecessary to claim HB. My carer and joint tenant, who owed me a substantial amount of money from the move, and decided to repay me by paying my rent for a while also.
I then fell ill. I had a cancer scare, followed by an operation. It was the first time in years that I was not completely obsessed and preoccupied with the fear of committing a fraud, paranoia and depression. It sounds ridiculous, but I miss the relief I felt in this respect.

When I became better (physically) I checked my current account balance. I was shocked to see that my current account balance had gone down dramatically to under £1000. I assumed this was because I was paying my own rent, and wasn't claiming HB.

Unfortunately I found out at a later date that the decreased amount was due to my failure to stop a Standing Order from my current account to my second current account. This was from our previous flat whereby the landlord wanted all rents collected from one account. I nominated my second account, and when we moved out the other tenant stopped their SO but I didn't. As I say, I am absolutely terrible with finances and tend to bury my head in the sand.
It took me months to cancel the SO because I was so scared and thought the problem would go away, but my psychiatrist told me to do so because I had nothing to live on, and was depriving myself of essentials such as food. This is because the second account had no bank card, and I only use the one main account. He told me to order a bank card for this second account and start spending some money. However I didn't order a bank card, didn't transfer any money, and more importantly...didn't check the balance. I just ignored it and hoped it would go away. (As mentioned, I have mental health problems and am prone to compartmentalizing and making things much worse for myself due to the fact I worry so much and don't know what to do, so I don't do anything about them then that in turn makes things much worse).

I have presented my concerns, fears and paranoia about inadvertently committing benefit fraud to a variety of people who support me (my community mental health team, psychologist, psychiatrist, support workers who advise on benefits, but never the DWP) and have always been told I'm being overly paranoid, I haven't done anything wrong, spend some money, and take comfort from the fact that if the DWP thought I was committing a fraud - they'd be in touch, but they haven't. But they are not the right people to be advising me from a legal perspective.

Current Situation. I decided to not take the advice of these people with regards to transferring or spending the money, but I did however bury my head in the sand. A close relative who brought me up suffered a stroke, I went to care for her in the hospice, and then she passed away recently so I have been suffering from immense bereavement. Also, I am being evicted from my flat! (my section 21 expired a fortnight ago and I'm awaiting a possession order). Letting agents won't touch me as I have no guarantor, but they have said I can pay 6 months' rent up front to secure a new tenancy. My support workers felt that this was a very good idea, and encouraged me to check the balance of my second account - which I have been too scared to do to date.

I now have finally checked the status of my savings, and the result is terrible: I have about £17,000 spread across my accounts, and although this has fluctuated somewhat, it has more or less been the case that I have been over £16,000 since 2012. Meaning obviously, that I have not been entitled to any ESA since this time.

I have felt desperately low. I am recently bereaved, being evicted, depressed, and now fear I'm going to be prosecuted. I drafted a letter to the DWP and ran it past a benefit fraud lawyer offering a free 10 minute consultation on the phone. They told me not to send the letter. They said "Are the DWP investigating you? No? If not, don't implicate yourself, you'll be opening up a huge can of worms. Come back to us if and when you're being investigated." They did however say that if I wanted to deal with it, go through the CAB. I then went to the CAB and a welfare rights adviser told me that 1) There was a tariff income for ESA 2) I am not entitled to ESA due to my savings 3) I should have been paid a Severe Disability Premium for the past 3 years, which means I was underpaid to an extent. (But I don't think this is at all relevant if I shouldn't have been in receipt of ESA at all during this time?). The adviser has offered to send a letter to the DWP on my behalf (a very simple one, a few lines, no details) but encouraged me to talk about this with my support workers (who specialise in mental health, benefits and tenancy issues) first, before coming to a decision.
However, those support workers are advising me very differently. As they are not all too familiar with the rules regarding savings and ESA (demonstrated by the fact that 1) They don't see how accumulated unspent benefits can class as savings 2) They were not aware of a tariff income for ESA) their advice is as follows: I need a roof over my head. Access the savings. Spend a few thousand on paying for my 6 months rent and deposit. Buy some things I need. Then I will have depleted my funds to qualify for ESA and HB and I will be able to move house, because I'm being evicted. Obviously, this advice is not lawful, but their primary concern is the state of my mental health, preventing a breakdown and hospitalisation, and securing me a new home. They have my best interests at heart, and will of course support me even if I decide to hand myself in also.

The adviser from CAB has informed me that as she is now aware of my situation, if I want CAB to act on my behalf I must let her know straight away. Otherwise they cannot support me. This is understandable I think.

I am so confused by the contradictory advice (black and white law vs advice) and so scared. I estimate that my overpayments go back years and I must therefore owe £14,000-20,000. Maybe more. I am so overwhelmed.

I believe my "defense" is: 1) I was honest about my circumstances at the start of my claim (and whenever they have requested information) but I have pretty much been left alone by the DWP. 2) Information relating the accruing unspent benefits during a claim is not mentioned anywhere on any of my letters under "changes you much tell us about" etc, and has been so hard to find out: my mental health support workers have training in welfare and benefits and yet they were unaware of how this could be unlawful; and even the CAB admitted that they had to research the facts because they usually deal with clients who are being investigated, not people coming to them asking if they are doing something wrong; 3) I have mental health problems 4) I have not touched this secondary account (which has nearly all of the money in it). I haven't touched it because I feel that this demonstrates I haven't purposely accumulated money to fund a lavish lifestyle. Only now I'm completely distressed because my main account has run so low (£200), I need to move, pay rent in advance and pay bills, and need to access this money, and I feel that if I do so it'll look like I've purposely depleted my funds for the purpose of claiming benefits. (Notional income?)

After a huge, long-winded overly detailed account of my situation, I'd like to ask the following questions (All advice/opinions welcomed; even if you can only answer some of the questions):

1) Should I go to the DWP? If yes, when? Before I deplete my funds for moving, or after? If no, ie. just spend the money I need to spend to move which depletes my funds, would I not need to tell them about savings over £6,000 and if not, would they not find out? Should I even be using this money to pay my rent in advance?

2) If yes, how? With CAB or a solicitor? A basic, brief letter (suggesting this has just come to my attention) or something more detailed, with supportive evidence, perhaps medical?

3) What will the likely outcome be? Will I be prosecuted? Will I be publicly named and shamed? Will I have to pay it all back? Are there any valid mitigating circumstances, such as my mental health, or their obligation to inform me of my obligations to report this accumulation of unspent benefits?

4) Will it make any difference if access the savings in the secondary account and spend them? Is this idea that "I haven't touched the money" as a defense really relevant? (That bank wrote to me and said that due to inactivity they would make my account inactive - all I needed to do was to deposit or withdraw some money to keep it active, but I was too scared and let it become frozen). If I spend several thousand on paying a 6/12 month tenancy in advance going to get me in trouble?

5) I have been claiming ESA since 2009. Am I due a review or spot-check anyway?

6) As mentioned, I used to be paranoid about the DWP thinking I was LTAHW with my ex, as we lived at several addresses together during my claim, whereby we obviously has separate bedrooms and separate finances. I was always honest and declared him as living with me. He never claimed any benefits. He doesn't live with me anymore. If the DWP start investigating me for this savings issue, would they query my relationship with him (the bit I'm really worried about is the short period of time whereby he paid my rent for a few months in order to pay back debts). Other than that we've always had separate finances, and I was even too scared to pay him anything for his caring - even when he would have to take days off work to look after me when unwell, because I was worried.

7) Will it make much of a difference if I go to the DWP myself and hand myself in?

8) If I go to the DWP, how long will this resolve take?

I know this has been very long-winded. I was going to simply state the current situation about finding out I have all these savings (in bold), but I felt that in order to get some beneficial advice I should include everything.

The CAB want a decision from me tomorrow as to whether they are going to write the letter. My support worker is encouraging me not to keep quiet, or go to a solicitor, but there are none in my area. My possession order for my eviction is looming. I'm completely and utterly terrified and confused and this situation is impacting heavily on my health. This was all a huge mistake. I never intended to commit fraud and I'm horrified at the situation and scared of the consequences should I go to the DWP, but I've read that it's best to contact them straight away (and I'll miss out on the CAB helping me if I delay). I would be so grateful for any thoughts - good or bad. I would appreciate all thoughts. Thank you so much in advance.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 years 5 months ago - 10 years 5 months ago #126205 by Gordon
Jane

These are not matters that anyone on a forum, this or any other, can really advise you on as there are too many factors to give accurate advice without seeing your documents (bank accounts etc.).

The law is clear;

- if you have assets and savings of more than £16,000 then any entitlement to Income Related ESA payments ceases.

- you are required to notify the DWP if your assets and savings exceed £6000. Failing to do so can result in a Civil Penalty.

I would take up the offer of the CAB to help you with this matter.

If this is the only reason that you have joined B&W today, then you might want to contact our office to request a refund of your joining fee. Email them on

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 10 years 5 months ago by Gordon.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: GordonGaryBISCatherineWendyKellygreekqueenpeterKatherineSuper UserChrisDavid