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ESA. And permitted work
- Sheila Power
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9 years 9 months ago #137163 by Sheila Power
ESA. And permitted work was created by Sheila Power
Hi I was put in the contribution based support group of ESA last August after cancer surgery/treatment and have been on the higher rate after serving the waiting period.
Recently I was offered part time work paying £105 per week for 15hrs work 3 hrs per day
I telephoned the ESA dept to ask if benefit would be affected and was told I could earn up to £110 per week so I gave the job a trial to see if I could cope and sent in the form informing ESA of the above.
Last week I received my p45 no explanation just p45 so phoned ESA for an explanation to be told I was earning £1 per week over the allowed income.
I said I was given the wrong info and wouldn't have trailed working and jeopardised my benefit if I'd known the correct limit and asked them to check the call as I understand calls are recorded. I was advised to start a fresh claim and put my concerns in writing which I have done and sent recorded delivery. I have now given up the part time work as it was too much for me and I wasn't coping but feel at least I did try.
I've seem my GP today and got a sick note to send in stating its the effects of cancer treatment that I'm unable to work so in my mind nothing has changed. but my worry is that I may not be put back in the support group and that I will have to serve the waiting period again as its a new claim.
I haven't heard from the DWP yet but am wondering if I should just start an appeal as I feel really aggrieved that I was given the wrong info and still haven't even been sent a letter of explanation.
I would be grateful for your thoughts.
Recently I was offered part time work paying £105 per week for 15hrs work 3 hrs per day
I telephoned the ESA dept to ask if benefit would be affected and was told I could earn up to £110 per week so I gave the job a trial to see if I could cope and sent in the form informing ESA of the above.
Last week I received my p45 no explanation just p45 so phoned ESA for an explanation to be told I was earning £1 per week over the allowed income.
I said I was given the wrong info and wouldn't have trailed working and jeopardised my benefit if I'd known the correct limit and asked them to check the call as I understand calls are recorded. I was advised to start a fresh claim and put my concerns in writing which I have done and sent recorded delivery. I have now given up the part time work as it was too much for me and I wasn't coping but feel at least I did try.
I've seem my GP today and got a sick note to send in stating its the effects of cancer treatment that I'm unable to work so in my mind nothing has changed. but my worry is that I may not be put back in the support group and that I will have to serve the waiting period again as its a new claim.
I haven't heard from the DWP yet but am wondering if I should just start an appeal as I feel really aggrieved that I was given the wrong info and still haven't even been sent a letter of explanation.
I would be grateful for your thoughts.
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- Gordon
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9 years 9 months ago - 9 years 9 months ago #137165 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic ESA. And permitted work
Dotty
Welcome to the forum.
You can certainly appeal this Decision but I would expect it to be treated as an Administrative appeal rather than the entitlement one that we normally deal with on the forum. This means that it will only be concerned with the facts of the case, you have either broken the terms of Permitted Work of your have not.
From your post it would seem that you have earned over the Upper Limit for earnings, so the only opportunity you would have to overturn the Decision would be for you to show that the DWP authorised your PW at a higher amount.
You do not mention what actions you took in regard your PW other then phoning the DWP for information.
Did you actually contact them to say that you wanted to do PW? I would have expected them to have issued a PW1 form if you had, which amongst other things captures information about your expected wages so that the DWP cab authorise you to undertake the PW.
Only a Decision Maker can authorise Permitted Work, the staff at the ESA call centre do not have such authority and you may struggle to show that you had a reasonable belief that they did have such authority.
You should issue a Subject Access Request for the call recording. See
SAR :
www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/request-for-personal-information.rtf
From this page :
www.dwp.gov.uk/privacy-policy/data-protection/
As your ESA claim was closed as a result of the PW any new claim will be a start from scratch claim with a new ESA50. Whether you are required to serve the normal 13 week Assessment period will depend on how the DWP view your claim (see below)
Whilst your recovering from chemotherapy should give you automatic qualification for the Support Group, it is possible that the DWP will dispute the validity of any Fit Note issued on this basis due to the Permitted Work that you have carried out. If this happens then you may well have to attend a face to face assessment and the PW that you have carried out will be considered by the assessor in making any recommendation to the DWP.
Gordon
Welcome to the forum.
You can certainly appeal this Decision but I would expect it to be treated as an Administrative appeal rather than the entitlement one that we normally deal with on the forum. This means that it will only be concerned with the facts of the case, you have either broken the terms of Permitted Work of your have not.
From your post it would seem that you have earned over the Upper Limit for earnings, so the only opportunity you would have to overturn the Decision would be for you to show that the DWP authorised your PW at a higher amount.
You do not mention what actions you took in regard your PW other then phoning the DWP for information.
Did you actually contact them to say that you wanted to do PW? I would have expected them to have issued a PW1 form if you had, which amongst other things captures information about your expected wages so that the DWP cab authorise you to undertake the PW.
Only a Decision Maker can authorise Permitted Work, the staff at the ESA call centre do not have such authority and you may struggle to show that you had a reasonable belief that they did have such authority.
You should issue a Subject Access Request for the call recording. See
SAR :
www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/request-for-personal-information.rtf
From this page :
www.dwp.gov.uk/privacy-policy/data-protection/
As your ESA claim was closed as a result of the PW any new claim will be a start from scratch claim with a new ESA50. Whether you are required to serve the normal 13 week Assessment period will depend on how the DWP view your claim (see below)
Whilst your recovering from chemotherapy should give you automatic qualification for the Support Group, it is possible that the DWP will dispute the validity of any Fit Note issued on this basis due to the Permitted Work that you have carried out. If this happens then you may well have to attend a face to face assessment and the PW that you have carried out will be considered by the assessor in making any recommendation to the DWP.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 9 years 9 months ago by Gordon.
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- mayflower
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9 years 9 months ago #137237 by mayflower
Replied by mayflower on topic ESA. And permitted work
Hi Dotty
I am so sorry to hear of your circumstances. You tried to do the "right thing" as the Tories are so fond of saying & because you earned £1 more than is permitted your ESA is withdrawn. Given your particular health & treatment issues you may like to contact your MP to intervene on your behalf?
Best wishes
mayflower
I am so sorry to hear of your circumstances. You tried to do the "right thing" as the Tories are so fond of saying & because you earned £1 more than is permitted your ESA is withdrawn. Given your particular health & treatment issues you may like to contact your MP to intervene on your behalf?
Best wishes
mayflower
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- bbzpda
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9 years 9 months ago #137250 by bbzpda
Replied by bbzpda on topic ESA. And permitted work
I am in the process of trying to start some Permitted Work (I'm on ESA Support Group). I need something light-weight to do at home while I'm ill and it will help build confidence.
My experience so far is that I filled in a PW1 form and DWP promptly lost it. So I am awaiting a new one and starting again. Pretty angry about it all given, as you say, all the government drivel about shirkers who just sit watching TV all day.
As to the figure of £110 you were given: it is clearly wrong - the figure is up to £104 (but check this with your own paperwork - all ESA people should have a flier in their award letter telling them about what they can and can't do). However, I wonder whether the £110 has come from confusion by the telephone operator about the fact that you can earn up to £104 (AFTER tax and NI). This would vary for different people.
When I first applied to do Permitted Work I did speak to my local JobCentre (they had called me for an interview about work-focussed tasks - even though I'm in Support Group!!). The lady there warned me that the limits are very, very strict. A lot of people, she said, get into trouble because it is UPTO 16 hours a week - and that means if you do 16 hours exactly you are flung off the benefit. So be warned - take something that is clearly less than 16 hours.
My experience so far is that I filled in a PW1 form and DWP promptly lost it. So I am awaiting a new one and starting again. Pretty angry about it all given, as you say, all the government drivel about shirkers who just sit watching TV all day.
As to the figure of £110 you were given: it is clearly wrong - the figure is up to £104 (but check this with your own paperwork - all ESA people should have a flier in their award letter telling them about what they can and can't do). However, I wonder whether the £110 has come from confusion by the telephone operator about the fact that you can earn up to £104 (AFTER tax and NI). This would vary for different people.
When I first applied to do Permitted Work I did speak to my local JobCentre (they had called me for an interview about work-focussed tasks - even though I'm in Support Group!!). The lady there warned me that the limits are very, very strict. A lot of people, she said, get into trouble because it is UPTO 16 hours a week - and that means if you do 16 hours exactly you are flung off the benefit. So be warned - take something that is clearly less than 16 hours.
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- slugsta
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9 years 9 months ago #137253 by slugsta
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by slugsta on topic ESA. And permitted work
Unfortunately, we have many members who have been mis-informed by the call centre staff. These people (the call centre peeps) are generally poorly trained but I wish they would say 'I don't know' when that is the case, rather than giving info that they think might be correct. In addition, call centre staff do not have the authority to make any binding decisions for the claimant. It is only the Decision Maker who can agree to the claimant undertaking PW.
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Sheila Power
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9 years 9 months ago #137310 by Sheila Power
Replied by Sheila Power on topic ESA. And permitted work
Thank you everyone for your replies all very helpful indeed.
Gordon-yes I did get a PW1 form and sent it recorded. But heard nothing other than the P45 in the post . I received a txt today saying my new claim has been accepted and I will receive payment on Friday and a letter will follow so it's looking good as they've made that decision without even receiving my new sick note as I haven't sent it yet so maybe they did trawl back through the call system and find they gave me the wrong info over the phone and I will go back to my original status of support group and without having to wait for the higher rate. Fingers crossed!!
Mrs Hurtyback - Yes I was very surprised when I called to ask about permitted work that they even gave me the amount I could earn albeit it was incorrect! I think maybe the member of staff was getting confused with the carers allowance permitted earnings amount which is £110.00
Thank you all for your replies I'm also the parent of a disabled child receiving DLA so I'm sure I will be asking for more info from you all soon! X
Gordon-yes I did get a PW1 form and sent it recorded. But heard nothing other than the P45 in the post . I received a txt today saying my new claim has been accepted and I will receive payment on Friday and a letter will follow so it's looking good as they've made that decision without even receiving my new sick note as I haven't sent it yet so maybe they did trawl back through the call system and find they gave me the wrong info over the phone and I will go back to my original status of support group and without having to wait for the higher rate. Fingers crossed!!
Mrs Hurtyback - Yes I was very surprised when I called to ask about permitted work that they even gave me the amount I could earn albeit it was incorrect! I think maybe the member of staff was getting confused with the carers allowance permitted earnings amount which is £110.00
Thank you all for your replies I'm also the parent of a disabled child receiving DLA so I'm sure I will be asking for more info from you all soon! X
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