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PIP Reassessment - CFS/ME
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4 years 2 weeks ago #258298 by chromatism
PIP Reassessment - CFS/ME was created by chromatism
As it seems a few people on these forums have experienced, in September last year I received a letter stating that I'd be granted an extension on my reassessment until half way through 2021... and then promptly received the reassessment form PIP 1043 to fill in.
This isn't the first time I've been through this process, and on the 6th of this month (after a recorded telephone assessment) I received the DWP's response. In short I was bumped down from enhanced Living and Mobility to standard, despite the fact that my situation hasn't changed... if anything my mental state (which is a large component) has deteriorated over lockdown, which has also affected me physically.
Anyone who is aware of CFS/ME, or other conditions like it such as Fibro Myalgia, know what a tricky and utterly frustratingly variable condition it is... and no way towards the positive. I can't undertake the majority of daily chores because I simply don't have the energy or comfort to be able to do so. I'm currently looked after by a family member and the thought of how I'll cope when the inevitable day comes that I'm without them, without even regarding the emotional trauma, is haunting.
To add to my point above, anyone who has experience with CFS also knows that it has a reputation as a "hidden" condition. - herein rests my mistake.
I once came across a wonderful document about "spoon theory". It was written in regards to lupus, but essentially equated every activity one might undertake in a day to being the equivalent of a spoon. There are only so many spoons in the drawer, and once they're expended you either have to rest and replenish or borrow against tomorrow's spoons with hefty interest.
This applies well to CFS/ME. However where the writer of "spoon theory" seemed to suggest a small but replenishing supply of spoons, my biggest bugbear as a CFS sufferer is that I can't tell how many spoons are in the drawer... and very often without realising I'm borrowing against the next day/week/occasionally months with no certainty that sleeping or resting will replenish any spoons at all. Thus I fall into awful health spirals where I'm pretty much entirely impeded, and very uncomfortable.
This applies to my reassessment. I made the mistake of knowingly borrowing against my spoons to pay extra care and attention to the phone conversation...
Due to the complexity of the condition, what should have been a 45 minute assessment turned into 2 hours. By the end I was nearly falling out of my chair, and my family member had to step in to answer on my behalf once or twice. However I was attempting to be clear and give enough information that my problems could be understood.
Unfortunately the assessor took this to mean I can communicate without problems, which is far from the truth when my health is low, especially when coupled with the anxiety. I regret that he wasn't party to a thoroughly miserable two weeks following the phone call. He also claims that a large part of points being deducted is due to the fact that I can achieve living tasks without much aid, I just need to pace myself. - I cannot expression how infuriating this statement is.
I'm at a loss. How on earth do I convey that, "Yes... I could do any one of those tasks. But if you expect me to do another task, or repeat it, then I won't be doing any tasks at all for the foreseeable future." - this is somewhat snarky. A more complex task such as cooking is simply undoable when I need to take care of other things such as toilet and hygiene needs, but this is the essence of my point.
I've attempted to give detail in writing, I've even redefined what an "average" "good" and "bad" day means for me, and that a good day is exceptionally rare... and how quickly and unexpectedly my health can dip for prolonged periods. I just don't know how to express in words what I need to say without the DWP being able to "misinterpret" my meaning. Does anyone have a clue how to express the maddening variability of my condition in a way that doesn't end in "pace yourself"?
I've been attempting to figure out how I can pace myself for 22 years, and so far no luck what so ever.
It's been a week now since I received their response. I've felt the anger coming, I've just been too exhausted to give voice to it until today. I want to challenge the decision, with help from the medical professionals in my life but I just need the extra advice if it's available... and after typing all this, the ability to hold on and do so before the crash hits.
And as a secondary point: in my original assessment I was given 4 points on the topic of planning and following a journey. I'm disoriented easily, and public transport becomes a truly petrifying prospect thanks to my anxiety.
However the assessor claims that because I have a family member to ferry me around, planning and following a journey becomes an irrelevant point. My counter is that without the family member, I wouldn't be making the journey full stop. Is this right?
Thank you for you help.
This isn't the first time I've been through this process, and on the 6th of this month (after a recorded telephone assessment) I received the DWP's response. In short I was bumped down from enhanced Living and Mobility to standard, despite the fact that my situation hasn't changed... if anything my mental state (which is a large component) has deteriorated over lockdown, which has also affected me physically.
Anyone who is aware of CFS/ME, or other conditions like it such as Fibro Myalgia, know what a tricky and utterly frustratingly variable condition it is... and no way towards the positive. I can't undertake the majority of daily chores because I simply don't have the energy or comfort to be able to do so. I'm currently looked after by a family member and the thought of how I'll cope when the inevitable day comes that I'm without them, without even regarding the emotional trauma, is haunting.
To add to my point above, anyone who has experience with CFS also knows that it has a reputation as a "hidden" condition. - herein rests my mistake.
I once came across a wonderful document about "spoon theory". It was written in regards to lupus, but essentially equated every activity one might undertake in a day to being the equivalent of a spoon. There are only so many spoons in the drawer, and once they're expended you either have to rest and replenish or borrow against tomorrow's spoons with hefty interest.
This applies well to CFS/ME. However where the writer of "spoon theory" seemed to suggest a small but replenishing supply of spoons, my biggest bugbear as a CFS sufferer is that I can't tell how many spoons are in the drawer... and very often without realising I'm borrowing against the next day/week/occasionally months with no certainty that sleeping or resting will replenish any spoons at all. Thus I fall into awful health spirals where I'm pretty much entirely impeded, and very uncomfortable.
This applies to my reassessment. I made the mistake of knowingly borrowing against my spoons to pay extra care and attention to the phone conversation...
Due to the complexity of the condition, what should have been a 45 minute assessment turned into 2 hours. By the end I was nearly falling out of my chair, and my family member had to step in to answer on my behalf once or twice. However I was attempting to be clear and give enough information that my problems could be understood.
Unfortunately the assessor took this to mean I can communicate without problems, which is far from the truth when my health is low, especially when coupled with the anxiety. I regret that he wasn't party to a thoroughly miserable two weeks following the phone call. He also claims that a large part of points being deducted is due to the fact that I can achieve living tasks without much aid, I just need to pace myself. - I cannot expression how infuriating this statement is.
I'm at a loss. How on earth do I convey that, "Yes... I could do any one of those tasks. But if you expect me to do another task, or repeat it, then I won't be doing any tasks at all for the foreseeable future." - this is somewhat snarky. A more complex task such as cooking is simply undoable when I need to take care of other things such as toilet and hygiene needs, but this is the essence of my point.
I've attempted to give detail in writing, I've even redefined what an "average" "good" and "bad" day means for me, and that a good day is exceptionally rare... and how quickly and unexpectedly my health can dip for prolonged periods. I just don't know how to express in words what I need to say without the DWP being able to "misinterpret" my meaning. Does anyone have a clue how to express the maddening variability of my condition in a way that doesn't end in "pace yourself"?
I've been attempting to figure out how I can pace myself for 22 years, and so far no luck what so ever.
It's been a week now since I received their response. I've felt the anger coming, I've just been too exhausted to give voice to it until today. I want to challenge the decision, with help from the medical professionals in my life but I just need the extra advice if it's available... and after typing all this, the ability to hold on and do so before the crash hits.
And as a secondary point: in my original assessment I was given 4 points on the topic of planning and following a journey. I'm disoriented easily, and public transport becomes a truly petrifying prospect thanks to my anxiety.
However the assessor claims that because I have a family member to ferry me around, planning and following a journey becomes an irrelevant point. My counter is that without the family member, I wouldn't be making the journey full stop. Is this right?
Thank you for you help.
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4 years 2 weeks ago #258313 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic PIP Reassessment - CFS/ME
Hi Jim
I'm sorry you have found yourself in this position. As you and many others with an invisible condition have found it is challenging or downright impossible to get someone else to understand what the reality of your life is like.
Let me deal with the easiest point first. You are absolutely right that the fact that you have someone else to drive you, does not mean you should not score points for planning and following a journey.
I know the spoon therapy well and I can understand how you used up your 'spoons' to get through the assessment. Unfortunately, as you have found that then puts you at a disadvantage, particularly during a telephone assessment where the assessor only relies on your voice and they can't see you getting tired, struggling to speak and process, struggling to keep your body upright in a chair etc. If you're putting in an MR - you would be wise to describe what they could not see. If you weren't given any breaks - you should say so, because your brain, wasn't going to keep functioning at an optimal level.
The remark about pacing shows little understanding of what that means in reality - so should you reiterate that it would take you much longer to start doing a task, you may not have the energy to fulfil it, as the exhaustion sets in, you may not finish it and depending on the task you would not be safe - hence why I assume you do not cook.
I can't tell you what the right words are to say - because there are none. It depends on the person reading it. You need to explain once again in your MR as clearly as you can the impact on your life. They are clearly acknowledging it is an issue for you by keeping you on standard, but not showing that your condition has remained the same or worsened.
Whatever you write will always be open to interpretation, but you certainly need to be clear that you have difficulties on the majority of days. I know you have tried to give a lot of detail, but check your wording to see that by doing so you haven't made it appear to others as if you are better than you are. Remember the chances are the person reading your MR will know nothing about the condition.
There are two thoughts regarding MRs - some people say keep it short and just say the few points you disagree with them and some people like to give more detail. I personally fall on the side of giving more detail to try and avoid going to a tribunal. However, don't waste time on points that won't score you points. If you have any complaints - put that in a summary paragraph at the end.
BIS
I'm sorry you have found yourself in this position. As you and many others with an invisible condition have found it is challenging or downright impossible to get someone else to understand what the reality of your life is like.
Let me deal with the easiest point first. You are absolutely right that the fact that you have someone else to drive you, does not mean you should not score points for planning and following a journey.
I know the spoon therapy well and I can understand how you used up your 'spoons' to get through the assessment. Unfortunately, as you have found that then puts you at a disadvantage, particularly during a telephone assessment where the assessor only relies on your voice and they can't see you getting tired, struggling to speak and process, struggling to keep your body upright in a chair etc. If you're putting in an MR - you would be wise to describe what they could not see. If you weren't given any breaks - you should say so, because your brain, wasn't going to keep functioning at an optimal level.
The remark about pacing shows little understanding of what that means in reality - so should you reiterate that it would take you much longer to start doing a task, you may not have the energy to fulfil it, as the exhaustion sets in, you may not finish it and depending on the task you would not be safe - hence why I assume you do not cook.
I can't tell you what the right words are to say - because there are none. It depends on the person reading it. You need to explain once again in your MR as clearly as you can the impact on your life. They are clearly acknowledging it is an issue for you by keeping you on standard, but not showing that your condition has remained the same or worsened.
Whatever you write will always be open to interpretation, but you certainly need to be clear that you have difficulties on the majority of days. I know you have tried to give a lot of detail, but check your wording to see that by doing so you haven't made it appear to others as if you are better than you are. Remember the chances are the person reading your MR will know nothing about the condition.
There are two thoughts regarding MRs - some people say keep it short and just say the few points you disagree with them and some people like to give more detail. I personally fall on the side of giving more detail to try and avoid going to a tribunal. However, don't waste time on points that won't score you points. If you have any complaints - put that in a summary paragraph at the end.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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4 years 2 weeks ago #258323 by chromatism
Replied by chromatism on topic PIP Reassessment - CFS/ME
Hi BIS,
A button doesn't really do it justice. Sometimes a thoughtful reply and some sound advice are what you really need to get over the hump and make some progress. Thank you very much. I can but do my best, however now I feel capable of doing just that.
A button doesn't really do it justice. Sometimes a thoughtful reply and some sound advice are what you really need to get over the hump and make some progress. Thank you very much. I can but do my best, however now I feel capable of doing just that.
The following user(s) said Thank You: BIS
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4 years 2 weeks ago #258333 by denby
Replied by denby on topic PIP Reassessment - CFS/ME
Glad to hear this Jim. We all have your back here! Wishing you the necessary energy, from Mum of a spoonie daughter.
Denby
Denby
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4 years 2 weeks ago #258358 by chromatism
Replied by chromatism on topic PIP Reassessment - CFS/ME
If someone would be kind enough to help me briefly... I note that I'm able to ring up the DWP within a month of the award letter to ask for details. It strikes me that the assessor has been quite thorough in his reasonings, especially since I can compare the materials from my old assessment to this current one.
Does it benefit me at all to ring up and ask? Or is my energy (and anxiety...) better served by simply responding? Thank you.
Does it benefit me at all to ring up and ask? Or is my energy (and anxiety...) better served by simply responding? Thank you.
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4 years 2 weeks ago #258360 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic PIP Reassessment - CFS/ME
Hi Jim
I just want to clarify something with you. You have got a copy of your assessment report (PA4) and not just the decision letter haven't you? Obviously, the PA4 is useful in putting in your MR because it has details of how the decision is made.
You can ring up and ask for a call back for someone to talk you through the decision. I can't say whether this is useful or will make your blood boil. Some have found it useful others not. Anyone ringing should always think of their mental health. I know for instance that some people don't ask for a copy of their PA4 because reading the contents would be too damaging even when they need to do an MR. You know yourself what you can tolerate and I would make the decision on that basis.
BIS
I just want to clarify something with you. You have got a copy of your assessment report (PA4) and not just the decision letter haven't you? Obviously, the PA4 is useful in putting in your MR because it has details of how the decision is made.
You can ring up and ask for a call back for someone to talk you through the decision. I can't say whether this is useful or will make your blood boil. Some have found it useful others not. Anyone ringing should always think of their mental health. I know for instance that some people don't ask for a copy of their PA4 because reading the contents would be too damaging even when they need to do an MR. You know yourself what you can tolerate and I would make the decision on that basis.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: chromatism
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