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Pip appeal
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3 years 10 months ago #260173 by pat_burton80@hotmail.com
Pip appeal was created by pat_burton80@hotmail.com
Hi after some advice please. For the second time I find myself having to go to appeal I have just done a change of circumstance and was downgraded from what I had been awarded at appeal after an MR I am now back to what I was awarded at appeal last year. I have been awarded standard mobility but only with 8 points the courts awarded me 10 points. Firstly do the dwp have to tell me where they think I have improved to only score me 8 points, they also say they only have to look at safely and in a timely manner I thought repeatedly came into it as that is what I was claiming that I cannot keep walking a distance. In the dwp assessment guide it gives a worked example at 2.2.26 of someone walking a distance over 60 metres but not being able to to repeat the distance so would be awarded descriptor e scoring 12 points would it be appropriate to quote this in my appeal. Also the length of award has been given as 2 years 6 months with a review at 1 year 6 months my conditions are degenerative I was on DLA lifetime award before having to apply for pip. I feel like they will not award me past my pension age. They say as I am being seen by a specialist and having treatment my needs may change this is what the assessor reported I have told them in my MR that this is not the case but they are choosing to ignore this information
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- Gary
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3 years 10 months ago #260175 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic Pip appeal
Hi samphire
One of the first things is to understand the difference between DLA and PIP.
DLA looks at generic care needs in regard to bodily functions, PIP looks at the claimants specific ability to carry out an activity such as eating. DLA was awarded because the claimant needed an amount of care (in time) during the day, the night or both, to help them with that bodily function.
PIP looks at the claimant's ability to complete specific tasks within the activity and is points-based, these are clearly defined and it is easy not to score points because the claimant has not shown that they meet those specific criteria.
DLA treated the use of aids as a reason to reduce the amount of care needed, PIP treats aids as an indication of disability and in general they score extra points.
DLA's care need was reasonably generic, PIP treats prompting, assistance and supervision as different activities and as a result, they can score different points.
DLA required that the care was required for the majority of the time, for PIP it is the majority of days.
For PIP activities must be completed reliably, this means
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
• To a necessary and appropriate standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period.
Although DLA considers these terms, they are poorly defined as they are implemented through Case Law rather than being defined in the legislation as they are for PIP.
The first thing you need to do if you have not already done so is contact the DWP and ask for a copy of the assessors report (PA4). The report will tell you how the assessor arrived at their decision, if you disagree with anything in the report then you need to explain why when you are appealing.
Gary
One of the first things is to understand the difference between DLA and PIP.
DLA looks at generic care needs in regard to bodily functions, PIP looks at the claimants specific ability to carry out an activity such as eating. DLA was awarded because the claimant needed an amount of care (in time) during the day, the night or both, to help them with that bodily function.
PIP looks at the claimant's ability to complete specific tasks within the activity and is points-based, these are clearly defined and it is easy not to score points because the claimant has not shown that they meet those specific criteria.
DLA treated the use of aids as a reason to reduce the amount of care needed, PIP treats aids as an indication of disability and in general they score extra points.
DLA's care need was reasonably generic, PIP treats prompting, assistance and supervision as different activities and as a result, they can score different points.
DLA required that the care was required for the majority of the time, for PIP it is the majority of days.
For PIP activities must be completed reliably, this means
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
• To a necessary and appropriate standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period.
Although DLA considers these terms, they are poorly defined as they are implemented through Case Law rather than being defined in the legislation as they are for PIP.
The first thing you need to do if you have not already done so is contact the DWP and ask for a copy of the assessors report (PA4). The report will tell you how the assessor arrived at their decision, if you disagree with anything in the report then you need to explain why when you are appealing.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- pat_burton80@hotmail.com
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3 years 10 months ago #260178 by pat_burton80@hotmail.com
Replied by pat_burton80@hotmail.com on topic Pip appeal
Hi Gary. Thank you for your quick reply. I do already have the assessors report her comments say that I was reporting less than 20 metres she says the FH shows that I walk 50 metres before a rest then a further 20 metres she reports not using aides and had no falls. She then says on the balance of probabilities I can manage 20 but no more than 50 metres and gave me c. The decision maker has agreed in my statement I say I can manage 50 metres at a slow pace and needing to rest and then another 30 to 35 metres without an aid as I am unable to use sticks as I have arthritic hands and shoulders. I cannot then walk this distance again for at the very least an hour and have to sit reclined to take the pressure from my spine so cannot also do other activities such as cooking. I did report that I was unable to repeat this again but she did not record this. I have been awarded enhanced care and standard mobility they are also stating a short term award as I have reported further investigations and treatment the assessor said this but it is not the case but the decision makes still believes this to be true. I do not know how to evidence this. In my original post I was asking if it is acceptable to quote from the dwp guides on the repeatedly point as it says if you can only do this once but no more you should be counted as not being able to do it at all. Hope I have explained this ok as it does get a bit confusing. Thanks again, I’m very grateful for any advice.
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- Catherine
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3 years 10 months ago - 3 years 10 months ago #260181 by Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Catherine on topic Pip appeal
Hello Samphire,
The quick answer is yes, you can quote the DWP guides, but you need to be aware that they guides as to how the DWP think the law should be interpreted, not the law itself.
If I have correctly read your post, the point in question is whether or not your 50m walk should be added to your subsequence 30-50m walk to make a walk of 50-200m. This clearly centers on the nature of the break between your two walks. This whole issue was explored in an Upper Tribunal decision.
administrativeappeals.decisions.tribunal...px/view.aspx?id=4881
Click the link at the bottom of the table ‘Decision(s) to Download:’
Have a read of that decision and I hope it will help you think about ways to best present your case. And again, if you so wish to, you can quote from an UT decision, but make sure that you do so within context, and remember that you are drawing the tribunal's attention to the whole of the decision, not just the little bit you quote. if you decide to use either this decision or any others then you should include a copy of the whole decision in your submission to the tribunal.
Catherine
The quick answer is yes, you can quote the DWP guides, but you need to be aware that they guides as to how the DWP think the law should be interpreted, not the law itself.
If I have correctly read your post, the point in question is whether or not your 50m walk should be added to your subsequence 30-50m walk to make a walk of 50-200m. This clearly centers on the nature of the break between your two walks. This whole issue was explored in an Upper Tribunal decision.
administrativeappeals.decisions.tribunal...px/view.aspx?id=4881
Click the link at the bottom of the table ‘Decision(s) to Download:’
Have a read of that decision and I hope it will help you think about ways to best present your case. And again, if you so wish to, you can quote from an UT decision, but make sure that you do so within context, and remember that you are drawing the tribunal's attention to the whole of the decision, not just the little bit you quote. if you decide to use either this decision or any others then you should include a copy of the whole decision in your submission to the tribunal.
Catherine
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by Catherine.
The following user(s) said Thank You: pat_burton80@hotmail.com, denby
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