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3 years 8 months ago #262179 by Ryan
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My wife was awarded enhance daily living with no mobility, 5 years ago however her mental health has deteriorated so much that she cannot plan a journey on her own or go out unsupervised. I am filling in the review form but do not know which box to tick regarding the distance.
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- LL26
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3 years 8 months ago #262182 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Review form
Hi Ryan,
Unfortunately I do not your wife's limitations, but there are a few simple things that you could consider.
Is there somewhere that your wife walks to? It could be a to a neighbour's, the post office or simply to the end if the garden path. Wherever it is, measure that distance. You could pace the distance or use a length of string, use Google or even use a dedicated measuring tape or wheel.
If the distance walked is a longer distance, well in excess of 200m, and can be done easily, and repeated possibly two or three times a day, then mobility points for walking are unlikely. However, if the distance is a short distance, around 200m or less, then you will need to consider the impact of eg breathlessness, fatigue, pain, falls or stumbles, and speed.
The 'rules' about walking distance as with all PIP activities require an analysis of safety, acceptable standard, repetition and time taken.
Risk of falls, which include stumbles (because realistically, a stumble is a fall that was narrowly avoided), will render walking perhaps unsafe, particularly if injuries have actually occurred. This may also coincide with whether walking is done to an acceptable standard. Any walking done with 'severe discomfort' eg pain, breathlessness has to be ignored. NB severe discomfort is less than severe pain!
Take into account fatigue and other circumstances that might mean walking can't be repeated several times a day. Remember that fatigue etc might preclude walking for the next day/s so factor this in too.
Finally, consider if a walk that would normally done in a certain time takes more than twice as long as it should. If long rests have to be taken mid walk, then this could render the walk outside the reasonable time AND if the rests are very long it is likely that the actual walking ability will be the distance from start to the first stop, rather than the whole distance.
So, thus it is never easy to arrive at the absolute correct walking distance. It is usually a reflection of the normal distance someone can walk once or twice a day, every day, without too much difficulty or pain, without the risk of falling, and without being too slow.
Remember also, that this distance can be exceeded its not an absolute maximum. All PIP points are awarded on the basis of the majority of days, so an occasional longer walk on a better day shouldn't be counted when deciding ability.
For the avoidance of any doubt, DWP refer to walking, or going for a walk, this means 200m or less which probably isn't what many people would classify as a walk!
If it helps, you can keep a diary of what walking is done, each day, including distance, stops, problems en route, pain etc. and the subsequent effect later that day or other days as appropriate. This can also be done for all PIP activities. A disability diary compiled over a week or two, reflecting difficulties with activities, or indeed when things go well can be an important contemporaneous record of what's happening at the time of a claim or review. It can also serve to show patterns, which might be useful in helping to monitor symptoms, and to avoid eg fatigue that may not be apparent at the time of activity.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Unfortunately I do not your wife's limitations, but there are a few simple things that you could consider.
Is there somewhere that your wife walks to? It could be a to a neighbour's, the post office or simply to the end if the garden path. Wherever it is, measure that distance. You could pace the distance or use a length of string, use Google or even use a dedicated measuring tape or wheel.
If the distance walked is a longer distance, well in excess of 200m, and can be done easily, and repeated possibly two or three times a day, then mobility points for walking are unlikely. However, if the distance is a short distance, around 200m or less, then you will need to consider the impact of eg breathlessness, fatigue, pain, falls or stumbles, and speed.
The 'rules' about walking distance as with all PIP activities require an analysis of safety, acceptable standard, repetition and time taken.
Risk of falls, which include stumbles (because realistically, a stumble is a fall that was narrowly avoided), will render walking perhaps unsafe, particularly if injuries have actually occurred. This may also coincide with whether walking is done to an acceptable standard. Any walking done with 'severe discomfort' eg pain, breathlessness has to be ignored. NB severe discomfort is less than severe pain!
Take into account fatigue and other circumstances that might mean walking can't be repeated several times a day. Remember that fatigue etc might preclude walking for the next day/s so factor this in too.
Finally, consider if a walk that would normally done in a certain time takes more than twice as long as it should. If long rests have to be taken mid walk, then this could render the walk outside the reasonable time AND if the rests are very long it is likely that the actual walking ability will be the distance from start to the first stop, rather than the whole distance.
So, thus it is never easy to arrive at the absolute correct walking distance. It is usually a reflection of the normal distance someone can walk once or twice a day, every day, without too much difficulty or pain, without the risk of falling, and without being too slow.
Remember also, that this distance can be exceeded its not an absolute maximum. All PIP points are awarded on the basis of the majority of days, so an occasional longer walk on a better day shouldn't be counted when deciding ability.
For the avoidance of any doubt, DWP refer to walking, or going for a walk, this means 200m or less which probably isn't what many people would classify as a walk!
If it helps, you can keep a diary of what walking is done, each day, including distance, stops, problems en route, pain etc. and the subsequent effect later that day or other days as appropriate. This can also be done for all PIP activities. A disability diary compiled over a week or two, reflecting difficulties with activities, or indeed when things go well can be an important contemporaneous record of what's happening at the time of a claim or review. It can also serve to show patterns, which might be useful in helping to monitor symptoms, and to avoid eg fatigue that may not be apparent at the time of activity.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Ryan
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3 years 8 months ago #262187 by Ryan
Replied by Ryan on topic Review form
Thank You for your reply, by the sounds of this, things preventing you walking seem to be physical, it is her agrophobia and panic attacks that are preventing her so I wont hold out much hope on mobility points.
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- denby
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3 years 8 months ago #262234 by denby
Replied by denby on topic Review form
Dear Ryan, you do not necessarily have to tick a distance box. You can write a note saying they should read your detailed explanation and then give it. Use a continuation sheet if necessary, with her NI No on top of course.
Best wishes,
Denby
Best wishes,
Denby
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- LL26
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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #262252 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Review form
Hi Ryan,
If someone has health problems that cause physical walking difficulties then depending on the distance involved, taking into account safely, pain etc as described on my previous post then you are entitled to receive the appropriate points value.
Sometimes mental health problems can cause physical walking problems or aggravate them.
Points for actual walking are awarded under Mobility Descriptor 2.
Mobility Descriptor 1 deals with the more conceptual side of journeys. The use of the word journey can be somewhat misleading. Most people think about a journey as being a long car trip or several hours in a train Not so for PIP. A journey could be several hundred miles or just a 100 metres to the local shop.
People with mental health problems may not be able to plan a journey, eg by getting out a map, or checking Google. Others can work out where to go but struggle to complete the journey due to anxiety, panic, epilepsy etc. (Or they can finish the journey but eg takes too long, or renders the claimant unsafe etc, so under the PIP rules would be allowed points.)
Have a look at the members guides which explain more about both kinds of mobility difficulties
It is likely that your wife could gain points under Mobility 1. Think about where she can go alone. Can she do this safely, in a reasonable time etc? What happens, does she become ill, can she get home safely, does she need to be rescued? Maybe she can never go to places alone? Maybe there are a few known places she can go?
Remember that you will need to decide what problems she has for the majority of days, so an occasional journey alone won't necessarily rule out points if normally journeys need to be accompanied or cause overwhelming psychological distress.
OPD is a significant state of panic or anxiety that has a huge impact on the rest of the day or rest of the week.
It is entirely possible that claimants with physical and mental health problems can receive points under Mobility 1 and 2.
I hope this clarifies my original answer.
LL26
If someone has health problems that cause physical walking difficulties then depending on the distance involved, taking into account safely, pain etc as described on my previous post then you are entitled to receive the appropriate points value.
Sometimes mental health problems can cause physical walking problems or aggravate them.
Points for actual walking are awarded under Mobility Descriptor 2.
Mobility Descriptor 1 deals with the more conceptual side of journeys. The use of the word journey can be somewhat misleading. Most people think about a journey as being a long car trip or several hours in a train Not so for PIP. A journey could be several hundred miles or just a 100 metres to the local shop.
People with mental health problems may not be able to plan a journey, eg by getting out a map, or checking Google. Others can work out where to go but struggle to complete the journey due to anxiety, panic, epilepsy etc. (Or they can finish the journey but eg takes too long, or renders the claimant unsafe etc, so under the PIP rules would be allowed points.)
Have a look at the members guides which explain more about both kinds of mobility difficulties
It is likely that your wife could gain points under Mobility 1. Think about where she can go alone. Can she do this safely, in a reasonable time etc? What happens, does she become ill, can she get home safely, does she need to be rescued? Maybe she can never go to places alone? Maybe there are a few known places she can go?
Remember that you will need to decide what problems she has for the majority of days, so an occasional journey alone won't necessarily rule out points if normally journeys need to be accompanied or cause overwhelming psychological distress.
OPD is a significant state of panic or anxiety that has a huge impact on the rest of the day or rest of the week.
It is entirely possible that claimants with physical and mental health problems can receive points under Mobility 1 and 2.
I hope this clarifies my original answer.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 3 years 8 months ago by LL26. Reason: Spelling
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