Pip mobility descriptor

Hi. I have just received my award letter for pip and have been awarded standard rate for daily living but only 4 points for mobility. I'm satisfied with the daily living part and don't want to challenge that.

In completing the form and in the telephone assessment I repeatedly made it clear that I cannot stand without pain. I have psoriatic arthritis, scoliosis, and lumbar spine degeneration. I provided medical evidence for this.

In response to the question about how far I can walk I stated less than 20 metres because I cannot be upright without pain. I explained the pain is instant and grows to be intolerable within a few minutes. I explained how the pain spreads and becomes severe if I don't sit again within couple of minutes.

In the phone assessment I was asked how far I could walk in perfect conditions. I answered that on standing I would be in immediate pain that I could only tolerate for a couple of minutes.

The award letter states that they have accepted I can walk for a couple of minutes and therefore can cover more than 50 metres but less than 200metres, hence 4 points.

Is it worth asking for mandatory reconsideration of just the mobility question (and potentially risking getting the daily living part taken away)? Or is the assessment correct? I.e. Is it irrelevant how much I might be suffering if I can technically cover that distance?

Can I use the reliably, repeatedly and safely rules to challenge this assumption?

Thank you

Thank you for the reply, it's helping me to think this through.

I did emphasise throughout the form and particularly in the mobility section that I have no good days when it comes to my back. The damage is extensive and permanent with no fluctuations.

I think I may attempt the mandatory reconsideration.

I used the guidance from this site to complete my online application and it was really helpful. So thanks to all for that.

It can also be very difficult to estimate the time that it's taken to do something. Even if you sit at home and concentrate on counting 120 seconds in order to estimate 2 minutes it's unlikely that you'll be spot on and that's when you're not doing something else that is causing you pain. Perception of time is also different depending on the circumstances. If you need to leave home to catch a bus in 2 minutes that time will fly by whereas if you're in bed, unable to sleep, in pain, every second will drag.

Similarly, many people find it difficult to estimate distance. I knew the width of a local swimming pool is 10m and guessed that the distance from my door to the garden gate was about the same distance - it was nearer 25m when I later measured it using Google maps.

You were put on the spot and asked to tell them the time you can walk. They assumed you were accurate with your estimate and that you were walking at a certain speed - that's not accurate, it's based on an estimate and assumptions!

Have you ever measured this? I think it's worth everyone doing this before an assessment and writing it down. When the assessor asks for the time or distance you can walk you can answer "I measured this and I know it is ..... metres and it took me ..... seconds". It doesn't mean they'll accept what you say but you'll know what you said was accurate which is a good point to start an MR. You might find it useful to do that measurement now and by starting with accurate figures you can then think about the reliability criteria which will help you decide whether to put in for an MR. You might find that you are able to walk further than 20m but it's very slow, or maybe the time you're walking for is a lot less than you realised and the distance is very short as a result.

The reply below from Gordon on a thread a few years ago might help with the "In a reasonable time period" part of the reliability criteria.

"I haven't seen any walking time defined for PIP but historically the times used have been 90m/minute and also 72m/minute. I would use the lower value if you are trying to do a comparison."

"it means that a healthy person can walk 70m in one minute.

So to meet the criteria for twice as long you need to be unable to walk more than 35m in a minute, the more restricted your walking the better."

They've probably assumed that even if you're quite slow you'll be walking 70m in 2 minutes which is not necessarily the case. Even for someone who can manage to walk that distance it may not be to an acceptable standard if they have pushed themselves through pain from the start which eventually forces them to stop as it gets worse.