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PIP: Preparing A Meal
- Kieran
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2 years 10 months ago #271234 by Kieran
PIP: Preparing A Meal was created by Kieran
Can anyone help me work out where this would fall on the points scale?
I can make a meal with dry and frozen ingredients and a recipe with supervision and help from another person mainly verbal cues, but it does take just under or just over double the period of time the recipe advises and it’s fairly rare I will do it - only a handful of times a month as the inconvenience / stress just isn’t worth it for me.
So I’m struggling to work out where that falls between:
- Needs supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 4 points
- Cannot prepare and cook food. 8 points
As I can in theory make a meal with supervision, but it doesn’t occur on a frequent basis and I’m unable to determine if a dish is ready I.e sufficiently cooked without someone else’s direct input.
I can make a meal with dry and frozen ingredients and a recipe with supervision and help from another person mainly verbal cues, but it does take just under or just over double the period of time the recipe advises and it’s fairly rare I will do it - only a handful of times a month as the inconvenience / stress just isn’t worth it for me.
So I’m struggling to work out where that falls between:
- Needs supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 4 points
- Cannot prepare and cook food. 8 points
As I can in theory make a meal with supervision, but it doesn’t occur on a frequent basis and I’m unable to determine if a dish is ready I.e sufficiently cooked without someone else’s direct input.
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- LL26
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2 years 10 months ago #271249 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic PIP: Preparing A Meal
Hi Kieran,
The test for descriptor 1 preparing a meal comprises preparing and cooking a simple meal for one using fresh ingredients. So, you woukd need to be able to peel and chop veg, cook meat or vegetarian equivalent. You might also need to make a sauce so standing at the cooker and stirring could be required. The items will need to be properly cooked not overdone or raw. Likewise they have to be done so that they are ready altogether to put on a plate.Hence timing and understanding how to assess whether food is cooked is also within the test. You may also need to be able to read packets etc.
Even the can use a microwave descriptor requires you to use that solely to cook a 'fresh' meal not reheat a ready meal.
All descriptors (not just food prep) also require 4 criteria to be met - all 4 must apply
Safety
Reasonable time
Acceptable standard
Repeatedly across the whole day as many times as reasonable
You haven't specified what your disability is that requires you to have assistance. You will need to be able to quantify why this is. It might be safety, you can't peel or chop due to weak wrists etc, perhaps you cut or burn yourself (this would fail safety)
Perhaps due to weak wrists etc you are simply too slow (do you take more than twice the time of an able bodied person?)
Maybe fatigue or pain is a problem, or you get distracted and forget food and burn it? That could mean not repeatable, not safe, and if you have pain or burnt food non Acceptable standard.
Maybe you spill food everywhere due to shaking hands this probably would suggest non acceptable standard?
Perhaps you have mental health problems, and can't understand cooking times, produce inedible food (non Acceptable) because its burnt, overcooked, over salty or over spiced?
I have given some examples if the sort of problems that could occur do any of these apply to you, or a similar scenario?
I note you say you only use frozen food etc. (This does NOT comprise preparing food from fresh ingredients!) Why? I am sure that this is not just through laziness, so what is the reason? If it is because cooking is too difficult then analyse why. Avoidance of difficult situations often indicate help is required. What help is provided?
There was a fairly recent case dealing with assistance for cooking. The judge analysed what the claimant did and what the assistant did and realised that in effect the claimant was very much a bystander and the assistant did the major part of the process. On that basis it was held that the claimant 'can not cook'.
Remember that the "can not cooking (as with all the 'can not do X' descriptors throughout PIP ) does not mean a total inability. What these descriptors mean is that you can not for the majority of days, do X safely, and/or acceptably, and/or repeatedly and/or timely according to the criteria outlined above.
I can not tell you which descriptor applies, but you need to analyse what you can't do and why, what help you need and why and whether an onlooker would believe that the assistant was the chef with limited help from you as the claimant. Think about the majority of time and the 4 criteria.
You will need to provide a cogent argument giving examples of the help you need and why, and also explaining what happens when things go wrong! ( eg Do you get a hot meal if no one is around to cook, what accidents occur?) Both physical and mental health problems are relevant and there might be a cumulative effect of both.
A very good day where you can cook etc will NOT comprise the majority pattern. (And even if managed, remember you might actually be too slow or unsafe etc - safety is about the risk of substantial harm, not whether the harm actually happens regularly its the risk that is crucial.) Think about what normally happens.
Finally, exclude using kitchen aids etc. Why can't you use chunky handled knives, a timer, other kitchen gadgets to help disabled people, if you could use these things the DWP will argue you get 2pts for 'aid or appliance' rather than need human assistance (supervision). You will need to counter any arguments on this basis.
I hope this helps.
LL26
The test for descriptor 1 preparing a meal comprises preparing and cooking a simple meal for one using fresh ingredients. So, you woukd need to be able to peel and chop veg, cook meat or vegetarian equivalent. You might also need to make a sauce so standing at the cooker and stirring could be required. The items will need to be properly cooked not overdone or raw. Likewise they have to be done so that they are ready altogether to put on a plate.Hence timing and understanding how to assess whether food is cooked is also within the test. You may also need to be able to read packets etc.
Even the can use a microwave descriptor requires you to use that solely to cook a 'fresh' meal not reheat a ready meal.
All descriptors (not just food prep) also require 4 criteria to be met - all 4 must apply
Safety
Reasonable time
Acceptable standard
Repeatedly across the whole day as many times as reasonable
You haven't specified what your disability is that requires you to have assistance. You will need to be able to quantify why this is. It might be safety, you can't peel or chop due to weak wrists etc, perhaps you cut or burn yourself (this would fail safety)
Perhaps due to weak wrists etc you are simply too slow (do you take more than twice the time of an able bodied person?)
Maybe fatigue or pain is a problem, or you get distracted and forget food and burn it? That could mean not repeatable, not safe, and if you have pain or burnt food non Acceptable standard.
Maybe you spill food everywhere due to shaking hands this probably would suggest non acceptable standard?
Perhaps you have mental health problems, and can't understand cooking times, produce inedible food (non Acceptable) because its burnt, overcooked, over salty or over spiced?
I have given some examples if the sort of problems that could occur do any of these apply to you, or a similar scenario?
I note you say you only use frozen food etc. (This does NOT comprise preparing food from fresh ingredients!) Why? I am sure that this is not just through laziness, so what is the reason? If it is because cooking is too difficult then analyse why. Avoidance of difficult situations often indicate help is required. What help is provided?
There was a fairly recent case dealing with assistance for cooking. The judge analysed what the claimant did and what the assistant did and realised that in effect the claimant was very much a bystander and the assistant did the major part of the process. On that basis it was held that the claimant 'can not cook'.
Remember that the "can not cooking (as with all the 'can not do X' descriptors throughout PIP ) does not mean a total inability. What these descriptors mean is that you can not for the majority of days, do X safely, and/or acceptably, and/or repeatedly and/or timely according to the criteria outlined above.
I can not tell you which descriptor applies, but you need to analyse what you can't do and why, what help you need and why and whether an onlooker would believe that the assistant was the chef with limited help from you as the claimant. Think about the majority of time and the 4 criteria.
You will need to provide a cogent argument giving examples of the help you need and why, and also explaining what happens when things go wrong! ( eg Do you get a hot meal if no one is around to cook, what accidents occur?) Both physical and mental health problems are relevant and there might be a cumulative effect of both.
A very good day where you can cook etc will NOT comprise the majority pattern. (And even if managed, remember you might actually be too slow or unsafe etc - safety is about the risk of substantial harm, not whether the harm actually happens regularly its the risk that is crucial.) Think about what normally happens.
Finally, exclude using kitchen aids etc. Why can't you use chunky handled knives, a timer, other kitchen gadgets to help disabled people, if you could use these things the DWP will argue you get 2pts for 'aid or appliance' rather than need human assistance (supervision). You will need to counter any arguments on this basis.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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