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PIP. Frequency of tasks
- Flipeteeflop
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2 years 2 weeks ago #279289 by Flipeteeflop
PIP. Frequency of tasks was created by Flipeteeflop
Hi all,
What is the generally accepted frequencies for PIP.
How many times a day/week should someone;
Eat
Wash
Bathe
Dress
Socialise/communicate with others.
It seems to me ive been assessed as being fine to carry out activities i hardly do, for made up reasons of the assessors.
Its acceptible i eat once a day on average due to me bwing overweight and therefore not malnourished. For example. Im overweight because i do not move. And fatness does not decide malnourishment. They have argued this point, yet ignored that i only eat once a day on average. Is this acceptable?
Due to my condition, i only shower about once a week, which they have said i manage due t to not having a care plan and having aids i can use. Ignoring the diffculty with those aids that i have, and the safety factors of showering. But again seem to think once a week, on average and this can be alot longer than that, is fine to wash.
As i rarely go out i rarely dress. Maybe once in 10 days. This is obviously on a day i feel able to do so, and with difficulty nd needing aids, but they deem dressing 1/10days as a non issue.
Are these supposed to be daily events in regards to pip.
In which case i am not managing the vast majority of the time, and they are not aknowledging that issue.
What is the generally accepted frequencies for PIP.
How many times a day/week should someone;
Eat
Wash
Bathe
Dress
Socialise/communicate with others.
It seems to me ive been assessed as being fine to carry out activities i hardly do, for made up reasons of the assessors.
Its acceptible i eat once a day on average due to me bwing overweight and therefore not malnourished. For example. Im overweight because i do not move. And fatness does not decide malnourishment. They have argued this point, yet ignored that i only eat once a day on average. Is this acceptable?
Due to my condition, i only shower about once a week, which they have said i manage due t to not having a care plan and having aids i can use. Ignoring the diffculty with those aids that i have, and the safety factors of showering. But again seem to think once a week, on average and this can be alot longer than that, is fine to wash.
As i rarely go out i rarely dress. Maybe once in 10 days. This is obviously on a day i feel able to do so, and with difficulty nd needing aids, but they deem dressing 1/10days as a non issue.
Are these supposed to be daily events in regards to pip.
In which case i am not managing the vast majority of the time, and they are not aknowledging that issue.
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- LL26
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2 years 2 weeks ago #279294 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic PIP. Frequency of tasks
Hi Flipeteeflop,
There is no set amount of repetition. Caselaw states that you need to be able to repeat as many times as is reasonable across the whole day.
What is reasonable for you may not be reasonable for someone else. If you can do a 'repeat to the required standard, then as long as that is not something trivial you should score points at the appropriate level.
Here's some examples if what I would argue is reasonable
Preparing food/nutrition - overweight or not as the meal can if course be low calorie- it is reasonable to have 3 meals a day, all of which could be cooked. You may need more drinks and ir a snack, particularly if it is a hot day or you need to eat to maintain blood sugar etc.
Dressing- you get dressed in the morning. You may need to go out so coat/outdoor shoes tk go on, then later help to take these off. Then perhaps getting undressed for bed.
However it woukd not be unreasonable to go out to the bank in the morning and then realise you have a letter to post after you have come back home. If you eat food messily or have incontinence problems, this could increase the reasonable amount of dressing/undressing repeats.
Showering etc I would suggest once per day but again more so fir incontinence or eg if you have a sweating disorder.
Communication could be reasonably required 24/7.
Journeys - either as a concept or on foot could be 4 or 5 times per day. Think of this - take kids to school. Go to bank. Go to supermarket. Home. Go to post box. Visit aunt. Pick up kids. Take kids to football training. Home. None of these journeys would be unreasonable in a day.Remember that journeys include both vehicles and a short few steps to get from the car to the building, even if you park right outside.
There might be religious reasons that dictate the repetitions - so you may need to consider these too.
Basically follow the principle of a normal life. What did you used to do before disability or what would you aspire to do? There was a case about pull on clothes. It is all very well for DWP to say just where pull on stuff, but why can't a disabled person look smart in a buttoned up shirt? This is the avoidance argument - avoiding a task because it is too difficult indicates help. So if YOU would like to bath once a day but either don't have help to get in or the energy, then it is not correct for DWP to say once a week is OK. You could argue eg you need help to get in or out and score 3 points. Here if you fail the once a day you have actually failed 100% of your repetitions.
If you fail to prepare one out 3 daily meals this is a third of your repetitions.
If you stammer and can't communicate for 5 minutes one day, this is unlikely to comprise a significant part of the day.
If you consider the relevant repetitions for each activity, you can then be in a position to show that you can't repeat and hence need points!
I hope this helps.
LL26
There is no set amount of repetition. Caselaw states that you need to be able to repeat as many times as is reasonable across the whole day.
What is reasonable for you may not be reasonable for someone else. If you can do a 'repeat to the required standard, then as long as that is not something trivial you should score points at the appropriate level.
Here's some examples if what I would argue is reasonable
Preparing food/nutrition - overweight or not as the meal can if course be low calorie- it is reasonable to have 3 meals a day, all of which could be cooked. You may need more drinks and ir a snack, particularly if it is a hot day or you need to eat to maintain blood sugar etc.
Dressing- you get dressed in the morning. You may need to go out so coat/outdoor shoes tk go on, then later help to take these off. Then perhaps getting undressed for bed.
However it woukd not be unreasonable to go out to the bank in the morning and then realise you have a letter to post after you have come back home. If you eat food messily or have incontinence problems, this could increase the reasonable amount of dressing/undressing repeats.
Showering etc I would suggest once per day but again more so fir incontinence or eg if you have a sweating disorder.
Communication could be reasonably required 24/7.
Journeys - either as a concept or on foot could be 4 or 5 times per day. Think of this - take kids to school. Go to bank. Go to supermarket. Home. Go to post box. Visit aunt. Pick up kids. Take kids to football training. Home. None of these journeys would be unreasonable in a day.Remember that journeys include both vehicles and a short few steps to get from the car to the building, even if you park right outside.
There might be religious reasons that dictate the repetitions - so you may need to consider these too.
Basically follow the principle of a normal life. What did you used to do before disability or what would you aspire to do? There was a case about pull on clothes. It is all very well for DWP to say just where pull on stuff, but why can't a disabled person look smart in a buttoned up shirt? This is the avoidance argument - avoiding a task because it is too difficult indicates help. So if YOU would like to bath once a day but either don't have help to get in or the energy, then it is not correct for DWP to say once a week is OK. You could argue eg you need help to get in or out and score 3 points. Here if you fail the once a day you have actually failed 100% of your repetitions.
If you fail to prepare one out 3 daily meals this is a third of your repetitions.
If you stammer and can't communicate for 5 minutes one day, this is unlikely to comprise a significant part of the day.
If you consider the relevant repetitions for each activity, you can then be in a position to show that you can't repeat and hence need points!
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Flipeteeflop
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- Flipeteeflop
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2 years 2 weeks ago #279306 by Flipeteeflop
Replied by Flipeteeflop on topic PIP. Frequency of tasks
Thanks for that detailed reply.
My life before disability was, what i would consider normal.
3 meals a day
Working so going out of the house daily.
Showered once a day if not twice when hot/sweaty/need be or wanted it.
Dressed every day in decent clothes that were well fitting, not baggy easy to pull on/off clothes with elasticated waists or that prioritised comfort and ease of dressing.
Socialised as often as i wanted which normally was 2 times a week or more.
Excercised, partook in hobbies, and otherwise had no real limitations.
I think the key point you have made, one which i never consider given i feel half of who i was back then, which i have to drum into myself are "why should a disabled person go without, or otherwise compromise where an able bodied person would not"
For me this is a key attitude that was missing from my MR i sent in. One that will have to be forefront for any tribunal hearing i attend.
I do think of myself as less than i was back then. And that should not be the case.
Thank you once again.
My life before disability was, what i would consider normal.
3 meals a day
Working so going out of the house daily.
Showered once a day if not twice when hot/sweaty/need be or wanted it.
Dressed every day in decent clothes that were well fitting, not baggy easy to pull on/off clothes with elasticated waists or that prioritised comfort and ease of dressing.
Socialised as often as i wanted which normally was 2 times a week or more.
Excercised, partook in hobbies, and otherwise had no real limitations.
I think the key point you have made, one which i never consider given i feel half of who i was back then, which i have to drum into myself are "why should a disabled person go without, or otherwise compromise where an able bodied person would not"
For me this is a key attitude that was missing from my MR i sent in. One that will have to be forefront for any tribunal hearing i attend.
I do think of myself as less than i was back then. And that should not be the case.
Thank you once again.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ivyfox, Gary, LL26
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2 years 2 weeks ago #279312 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic PIP. Frequency of tasks
Hi Flipeteeflop
As a disabled person you should never feel beneath an abled bodied person, you have to adapt to your own strengths.
I come across many claimants who now have been diagnosed with long covid, but no two claimants are the same and no two days are the same for each claimant.
My only words of wisdom is not to look back on your weakness but to go forward with your strengths and have a positive mindset when you wake up in the morning, never think of yourself as less than you were, as you have gained experience through your life experiences.
Good luck with your tribunal
Gary
As a disabled person you should never feel beneath an abled bodied person, you have to adapt to your own strengths.
I come across many claimants who now have been diagnosed with long covid, but no two claimants are the same and no two days are the same for each claimant.
My only words of wisdom is not to look back on your weakness but to go forward with your strengths and have a positive mindset when you wake up in the morning, never think of yourself as less than you were, as you have gained experience through your life experiences.
Good luck with your tribunal
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Flipeteeflop
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