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PIP-AR1 - 3 MORE QUESTIONS: communication activities/point challenges/evidence
- twinkerzzz
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1 year 5 months ago #280812 by twinkerzzz
PIP-AR1 - 3 MORE QUESTIONS: communication activities/point challenges/evidence was created by twinkerzzz
Hi
I hope this is ok to post these is this manner.
3 more questions as i fill out AR1:
1. concerning the communication activity questions:
SPEAKING TO PEOPLE, HEARING AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT THEY SAY AND BEING UNDERSTOOD
and READING AND UNDERSTANDING SIGNS SYMBOLS AND WRITTEN WORDS
Could you clarify if states of psychosis might apply because you don't really state that mental illness applies at all in guidance for both of the above, suggesting these questions are treated by the DWP as specifically about physical / physiological diffiuclty.
For READING activity, on p65, you go so far as to state:
"Prompting’ will seldom be relevant because: “Explaining” what a piece of basic written information is, so that the person does not need to read it, is not prompting them to read it."
However, a wide range of psychotic and depressive states may require prompting simply to concerntrate and focus the mind to read as well as interpret the content in for example a non paranoic manner - Also applies to reading disorders like dyslexia. I don;t want to go into all of this if it wont apply anyway.
2. For an activity i have the following conflict. I agree the diffiuclty is the same but i disagree with the discriptor and level of points which were previously awarded. I am again in a position where i am detailing conditions for which a different discriptor / points award should apply - do i state blantently i disagree with the previous points awarded and indicate the points i think legally apply ? Is it ok to be direct on the matter ?
3. Evidence submission. My evidence pile is building. It naturally falls into sections. Should i paper clip / staple / string bind the corners of each section or keep it one single pile (some 30 pages) ? What's the best way to do this whilst not inhibiting the document scanning process applied at the dwp ?
thanks - all - help appreciated
sp
I hope this is ok to post these is this manner.
3 more questions as i fill out AR1:
1. concerning the communication activity questions:
SPEAKING TO PEOPLE, HEARING AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT THEY SAY AND BEING UNDERSTOOD
and READING AND UNDERSTANDING SIGNS SYMBOLS AND WRITTEN WORDS
Could you clarify if states of psychosis might apply because you don't really state that mental illness applies at all in guidance for both of the above, suggesting these questions are treated by the DWP as specifically about physical / physiological diffiuclty.
For READING activity, on p65, you go so far as to state:
"Prompting’ will seldom be relevant because: “Explaining” what a piece of basic written information is, so that the person does not need to read it, is not prompting them to read it."
However, a wide range of psychotic and depressive states may require prompting simply to concerntrate and focus the mind to read as well as interpret the content in for example a non paranoic manner - Also applies to reading disorders like dyslexia. I don;t want to go into all of this if it wont apply anyway.
2. For an activity i have the following conflict. I agree the diffiuclty is the same but i disagree with the discriptor and level of points which were previously awarded. I am again in a position where i am detailing conditions for which a different discriptor / points award should apply - do i state blantently i disagree with the previous points awarded and indicate the points i think legally apply ? Is it ok to be direct on the matter ?
3. Evidence submission. My evidence pile is building. It naturally falls into sections. Should i paper clip / staple / string bind the corners of each section or keep it one single pile (some 30 pages) ? What's the best way to do this whilst not inhibiting the document scanning process applied at the dwp ?
thanks - all - help appreciated
sp
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- Gary
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1 year 5 months ago #280830 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic PIP-AR1 - 3 MORE QUESTIONS: communication activities/point challenges/evidence
Hi twinkerzzz
1) The Communicating activity is about the claimant's ability to speak to speak in a way that people will understand and also to understand what other people are saying to them. An obvious example would be someone who is deaf or mute but it is possible to score due to cognitive or mental health issues as well.
There are also definitions for Basic and Complex verbal information, with the former being a simple sentence and the latter covering a complex sentence or multiple sentences.
The context is not considered, just the capability.
You should probably tick “Yes” if:
* you need to use something to help you hear people - for example, a hearing aid or amplifier
* you need to use something to help other people understand you - for example, an electro larynx or a pen and paper
* you need to use something else to help you at home, for example a light-up doorbell or textphone
* you use an aid either all the time or sometimes
* you need an interpreter or signer
* a friend or family member fills in the gaps in conversations
* you lip-read
* you have autism and find it difficult to communicate with people
* you have Tourette’s syndrome
* your medication makes it difficult to concentrate on a conversation
* you need help but don't get it
2) Yes, state what you have been awarded by the assessor in the PA4.
Then state what you believe you should have been awarded, follow this up with the WHY, you believe you should have been it.
You have to explain the why part, make sure that you understand the criteria that you are being assessed against, you can put the best case forward that is possible but you won't score points if you do not meet the PIP Descriptors.
3) It is perfectly OK for you to type your answers and attach them as extra pages to the form along with supporting documents, just make sure that each page has your full name and NIN at the top and that they are numbered, we recommend "page X of Y" so that it is easy to see if pages are missing. Make sure you clearly mark on the form where your answers are and on the relevant page that you are answering question X.
I would not split your answers across the form and attached pages, do one or the other for each activity (not question), splitting it risks the second part of your answer not being read.
Attach the pages to the back of the form using a staple or make a hole in the top left corner and use a treasury tag, string or ribbon to the form. The pages need to be easily detached so that they can be scanned by the DWP.
Gary
1) The Communicating activity is about the claimant's ability to speak to speak in a way that people will understand and also to understand what other people are saying to them. An obvious example would be someone who is deaf or mute but it is possible to score due to cognitive or mental health issues as well.
There are also definitions for Basic and Complex verbal information, with the former being a simple sentence and the latter covering a complex sentence or multiple sentences.
The context is not considered, just the capability.
You should probably tick “Yes” if:
* you need to use something to help you hear people - for example, a hearing aid or amplifier
* you need to use something to help other people understand you - for example, an electro larynx or a pen and paper
* you need to use something else to help you at home, for example a light-up doorbell or textphone
* you use an aid either all the time or sometimes
* you need an interpreter or signer
* a friend or family member fills in the gaps in conversations
* you lip-read
* you have autism and find it difficult to communicate with people
* you have Tourette’s syndrome
* your medication makes it difficult to concentrate on a conversation
* you need help but don't get it
2) Yes, state what you have been awarded by the assessor in the PA4.
Then state what you believe you should have been awarded, follow this up with the WHY, you believe you should have been it.
You have to explain the why part, make sure that you understand the criteria that you are being assessed against, you can put the best case forward that is possible but you won't score points if you do not meet the PIP Descriptors.
3) It is perfectly OK for you to type your answers and attach them as extra pages to the form along with supporting documents, just make sure that each page has your full name and NIN at the top and that they are numbered, we recommend "page X of Y" so that it is easy to see if pages are missing. Make sure you clearly mark on the form where your answers are and on the relevant page that you are answering question X.
I would not split your answers across the form and attached pages, do one or the other for each activity (not question), splitting it risks the second part of your answer not being read.
Attach the pages to the back of the form using a staple or make a hole in the top left corner and use a treasury tag, string or ribbon to the form. The pages need to be easily detached so that they can be scanned by the DWP.
Gary
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- twinkerzzz
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1 year 5 months ago #280869 by twinkerzzz
Replied by twinkerzzz on topic PIP-AR1 - 3 MORE QUESTIONS: communication activities/point challenges/evidence
HI - and thanks @GARY
But i'm still a bit confused re: if i qualify for Q9 Talking, listening and understanding (Activity 7) related points:
If i put down details for example:
1) psychotic episodes cause my conversation reference points to be misunderstood as well as cause me to ruminate and loose focus
2) severe depression causes me to be unable to articulte whole sentences and only speak using single words ?
3) paranoid ideation causes me to misunderstand things people say as well as body language and i can then refer to topics in conversations others dont understand
You only mention autism and medication induced verbal distortion but severe psychosis, paranoia and depression might resemble autism ?? Can you clarify further ?
If you agree, which descriptor/s would apply if any for the above ? might it be 7c/d/e depending on severity and frequency ?
If these might apply do i have to frame the 'ability breakdown' rather than the 'context' through examples ?
cheers
sp
But i'm still a bit confused re: if i qualify for Q9 Talking, listening and understanding (Activity 7) related points:
If i put down details for example:
1) psychotic episodes cause my conversation reference points to be misunderstood as well as cause me to ruminate and loose focus
2) severe depression causes me to be unable to articulte whole sentences and only speak using single words ?
3) paranoid ideation causes me to misunderstand things people say as well as body language and i can then refer to topics in conversations others dont understand
You only mention autism and medication induced verbal distortion but severe psychosis, paranoia and depression might resemble autism ?? Can you clarify further ?
If you agree, which descriptor/s would apply if any for the above ? might it be 7c/d/e depending on severity and frequency ?
If these might apply do i have to frame the 'ability breakdown' rather than the 'context' through examples ?
cheers
sp
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- BIS
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1 year 5 months ago #280888 by BIS
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Replied by BIS on topic PIP-AR1 - 3 MORE QUESTIONS: communication activities/point challenges/evidence
Hi Tinkerzzz
In terms of question 9 whatever examples you choose in relation to your mental health you will have to show that they happen for the majority of the time for them to be counted. So if you say that you need support (regardless of whether you currently have it) to understand or express basic or complex information, then you would need to explain why and what condition impacts your ability to do so. Make sure that you've checked out the meaning of basic and complex in this context.
So using the example you've given regarding your severe depression - The DWP would want to know that for the majority of the time you can only speak single words and therefore require support to make yourself understood. But be aware if you say that for some of the time because of your paranoid ideation, you then refer to topics in conversations that others don't understand, the assessor will assume at that point you are using more than single words - unless you say otherwise.
We can't tell you what you should write here because you're the expert on your illness and understand how it impacts you. I come back to the fact - yes, you can use your mental health difficulties on question 9 - you just need to show how it impacts you for the majority of the time. How you will be scored, will be up to the assessor.
BIS
In terms of question 9 whatever examples you choose in relation to your mental health you will have to show that they happen for the majority of the time for them to be counted. So if you say that you need support (regardless of whether you currently have it) to understand or express basic or complex information, then you would need to explain why and what condition impacts your ability to do so. Make sure that you've checked out the meaning of basic and complex in this context.
So using the example you've given regarding your severe depression - The DWP would want to know that for the majority of the time you can only speak single words and therefore require support to make yourself understood. But be aware if you say that for some of the time because of your paranoid ideation, you then refer to topics in conversations that others don't understand, the assessor will assume at that point you are using more than single words - unless you say otherwise.
We can't tell you what you should write here because you're the expert on your illness and understand how it impacts you. I come back to the fact - yes, you can use your mental health difficulties on question 9 - you just need to show how it impacts you for the majority of the time. How you will be scored, will be up to the assessor.
BIS
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- Gordon
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1 year 5 months ago #280896 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP-AR1 - 3 MORE QUESTIONS: communication activities/point challenges/evidence
twinkerzzz
Just to add, to score higher you are going to show a need for Communications Support can you do this?
Gordon
Just to add, to score higher you are going to show a need for Communications Support can you do this?
Gordon
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- twinkerzzz
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1 year 5 months ago #280929 by twinkerzzz
Replied by twinkerzzz on topic PIP-AR1 - 3 MORE QUESTIONS: communication activities/point challenges/evidence
thanks @ BIS + Gordon
I need a bit more hand holding through this question .....
1. I'm taking as majority of time the varies rule : "a descriptor applies to you for the whole day if it applies at any point during a 24 hour period unless it is just "momentary".- then number of days = > than 51%
2. I'm using as my 'Communications Support' for Talking and listening - actvity 7: the key worker and psychiatrist + others i see attached to my 2ndry mental health community service - But would these count because the definition given in the guide top p61 infers a very specific kind of skilled person rather than those expereinced with a broader symptomology and familiar with those applied to a specific service user ? Mixing with other people - activity 9 - defines 'social support' more broadly "....a person trained OR EXPERIENCED in assisting people to engage in social situations." so does this apply in Talking and Lisenting - actvity 7 too ?
3. Also in Mixing with other people - activity 9 support can occur before.during and after. Is this the case for activity 8 reading and 7 talking/listening?
4. For reading: activity 8 - i'm detailing the mix of meds + deyslexia + depression + psychosis combos - is this ok ?
5. Finally - if i consider the whole answer for either of activity 7,8 and 9 DOES NOT for over 51% of the time - but can utilise the varies rule: p27 - "No descriptor applies for half of the time" what is the best way to detail this option ? I've never applied this before so how on-the-nose should i be about what specfically applies when or do i presume they will apply the rule farily at all times ? It's nervy because i'm suddenly stating multiple instance where the majorty of time doesn't apply so it seems counter-intuitive and condusive to failure ...
cheers again folks
sp
I need a bit more hand holding through this question .....
1. I'm taking as majority of time the varies rule : "a descriptor applies to you for the whole day if it applies at any point during a 24 hour period unless it is just "momentary".- then number of days = > than 51%
2. I'm using as my 'Communications Support' for Talking and listening - actvity 7: the key worker and psychiatrist + others i see attached to my 2ndry mental health community service - But would these count because the definition given in the guide top p61 infers a very specific kind of skilled person rather than those expereinced with a broader symptomology and familiar with those applied to a specific service user ? Mixing with other people - activity 9 - defines 'social support' more broadly "....a person trained OR EXPERIENCED in assisting people to engage in social situations." so does this apply in Talking and Lisenting - actvity 7 too ?
3. Also in Mixing with other people - activity 9 support can occur before.during and after. Is this the case for activity 8 reading and 7 talking/listening?
4. For reading: activity 8 - i'm detailing the mix of meds + deyslexia + depression + psychosis combos - is this ok ?
5. Finally - if i consider the whole answer for either of activity 7,8 and 9 DOES NOT for over 51% of the time - but can utilise the varies rule: p27 - "No descriptor applies for half of the time" what is the best way to detail this option ? I've never applied this before so how on-the-nose should i be about what specfically applies when or do i presume they will apply the rule farily at all times ? It's nervy because i'm suddenly stating multiple instance where the majorty of time doesn't apply so it seems counter-intuitive and condusive to failure ...
cheers again folks
sp
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