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Mobility clarification
- Ingy
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1 year 1 month ago #283857 by Ingy
Mobility clarification was created by Ingy
Hi, I’m a bit confused about what box to tick on the mobility question for pip. I would appreciate some help about how to approach this question.
I have fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis in my neck, hands, hip & knees along with depression & anxiety. I leave home once a week or every two weeks. I use a walking stick. In the past I have ticked the 20-50 metre box as I am in pain & overwhelmed with fatigue most of the time.
Recently on a few occasions when I’ve gone out I have not used my stick & walked more than the 20-50 metres, this has left me almost crawling as I tried to walk & it made my pain worse. By doing this have I broken any rules with how far I can walk. I’m feeling a bit concerned & don’t want to get myself in trouble. If I am able to walk a longer distance on my outing once a week or once every two weeks do I need to tell dwp.
I wanted to see how well I would get on without using my stick outside the home but have gone back to using it for support. I find the mobility question difficult due to fibromyalgia being a condition that fluctuates. Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks.
I have fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis in my neck, hands, hip & knees along with depression & anxiety. I leave home once a week or every two weeks. I use a walking stick. In the past I have ticked the 20-50 metre box as I am in pain & overwhelmed with fatigue most of the time.
Recently on a few occasions when I’ve gone out I have not used my stick & walked more than the 20-50 metres, this has left me almost crawling as I tried to walk & it made my pain worse. By doing this have I broken any rules with how far I can walk. I’m feeling a bit concerned & don’t want to get myself in trouble. If I am able to walk a longer distance on my outing once a week or once every two weeks do I need to tell dwp.
I wanted to see how well I would get on without using my stick outside the home but have gone back to using it for support. I find the mobility question difficult due to fibromyalgia being a condition that fluctuates. Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks.
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- Chris
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1 year 1 month ago #283859 by Chris
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Chris on topic Mobility clarification
Hi Ingy,
Sure - I'll try help. Pick the descriptors that best suit your needs for more than half the time. For example, 4 days of the week, rather than 3.
There's guides also on the website that will explain how to word things to enhance your chances of success.
Regards, Chris.
Sure - I'll try help. Pick the descriptors that best suit your needs for more than half the time. For example, 4 days of the week, rather than 3.
There's guides also on the website that will explain how to word things to enhance your chances of success.
Regards, Chris.
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- LL26
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1 year 1 month ago #283889 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Mobility clarification
Hi Ingy,
To add to what Chris has said...
I will try and explain how to disabilities for descriptors...
Long post sorry!
Regulation 4(2A) PIP Regs 2013 provides that all PIP descriptor activities have to be completed
• safely
• repeatedly
• to an acceptable standard
• within a reasonable time
This is the so called 'reliability' criteria - all 4 must apply- if you fail to meet even just one of the four this indicates you can't do that descriptor and may need help, an aid or actually can not do the task
Safely - is there a substantial risk that harm might occur? So, if you have epilepsy, and a fit could occur causing danger then this indicates eg supervision for bathing- it doesn't matter whether the likelihood of the fit is infrequent; clearly a fit in the bath could have very serious consequences. Safety issues could comprise dropping knives, or hot pans/food whilst cooking or eating, but could also include leaving the cooker on, and running the risk of fire etc. Falls indicate safety issues, not hearing traffic coming could indicate the need for supervision if out walking.
Acceptable standard is not defined but kind of means the level of completion expected by others. Leaving large messes whilst cooking, or constantly spilling food off the plate or food probably isn't acceptable. Only being able to hear half the words being said is unlikely to be acceptable. Putting on clothes upside down or back to front with buttons not aligned with the button holes is unlikely to be acceptable.
In addition, significant amounts of pain will also be 'unacceptable".
Reasonable time- this is defined as no more than twice that of non disabled person. If you take too long again this shows a need for an aid or physical help.
Some of these criteria overlap- if you are too slow then this probably isn't acceptable. Leaving slip hazards in kitchen could be both unsafe and unacceptable.
Finally consider repetition, tasks need to be done as many times a day as reasonable. The repetition rate will vary across the descriptors.You might wish to cook 3 times a day. Toilet needs with incontinence might need to be managed 10 or more times per day. With journeys and walking this could be 6 or 7 times per day. Bearing in mind the journey could be by car or public transport, but inevitably will involve at least a few short steps to the car and into the nearby building. It would not be unreasonable for someone to take kids to school, go to supermarket, need to go and get new shoes, walk back to car via card shop. Go home.Write card and go to post box. Pick up the kids. Visit mother in evening. None of these journeys or small amounts of walking would be unreasonable, and perhaps one of two more might be required. Communication could however be required 24/7.
You need to be able to do all the required repeats acceptably safely and within the appropriate time for each descriptor. If you fail to repeat except for a trivial time eg 5 mins of the day you can't communicate you can achieve points in accordance with the level of disability under the relevant descriptor.
A descriptor will be met if you can't achieve any/all of the 4 criteria for the majority of days. This means that if you have a better day every so often, that won't preclude points/award of PIP.
Fatigue could also comprise non acceptable standard. It is easy to consider each descriptor task in isolation. Think about the descriptors holistically.
So...if I asked you, do you cook? - if you told me yes, but only when I don't go walking, and it's not the day I have a bath. This would suggest you can't repeat all the activities across the day. Likewise if fatigue, pain breathlessness increase in blood pressure, etc makes activities too slow, this might indicate a problem with repetition as well as being unacceptable standard, and perhaps not safe.
Filling out PIP forms requires a bit of lateral thinking. Consider what makes the activity difficult or impossible. If you had help, why would you need it, and what help would be required. Is it always at the same time, or does it depend on energy/pain levels etc? Try and quantify the help you get, or realistically should have. Disabled people who live alone or have little help often have a stark choice- try and do something, - it may take a while, be only half done, it may risk safety etc, but the alternative is to sit in the chair and do nothing.
Be realistic as to your limitations!
If walking (or other descriptor activity) is now worse or needs more help, is now much slower, more unsafe etc, then a higher points value is appropriate, and this may be more than what you scored last time.
I hope this helps.
LL26
To add to what Chris has said...
I will try and explain how to disabilities for descriptors...
Long post sorry!
Regulation 4(2A) PIP Regs 2013 provides that all PIP descriptor activities have to be completed
• safely
• repeatedly
• to an acceptable standard
• within a reasonable time
This is the so called 'reliability' criteria - all 4 must apply- if you fail to meet even just one of the four this indicates you can't do that descriptor and may need help, an aid or actually can not do the task
Safely - is there a substantial risk that harm might occur? So, if you have epilepsy, and a fit could occur causing danger then this indicates eg supervision for bathing- it doesn't matter whether the likelihood of the fit is infrequent; clearly a fit in the bath could have very serious consequences. Safety issues could comprise dropping knives, or hot pans/food whilst cooking or eating, but could also include leaving the cooker on, and running the risk of fire etc. Falls indicate safety issues, not hearing traffic coming could indicate the need for supervision if out walking.
Acceptable standard is not defined but kind of means the level of completion expected by others. Leaving large messes whilst cooking, or constantly spilling food off the plate or food probably isn't acceptable. Only being able to hear half the words being said is unlikely to be acceptable. Putting on clothes upside down or back to front with buttons not aligned with the button holes is unlikely to be acceptable.
In addition, significant amounts of pain will also be 'unacceptable".
Reasonable time- this is defined as no more than twice that of non disabled person. If you take too long again this shows a need for an aid or physical help.
Some of these criteria overlap- if you are too slow then this probably isn't acceptable. Leaving slip hazards in kitchen could be both unsafe and unacceptable.
Finally consider repetition, tasks need to be done as many times a day as reasonable. The repetition rate will vary across the descriptors.You might wish to cook 3 times a day. Toilet needs with incontinence might need to be managed 10 or more times per day. With journeys and walking this could be 6 or 7 times per day. Bearing in mind the journey could be by car or public transport, but inevitably will involve at least a few short steps to the car and into the nearby building. It would not be unreasonable for someone to take kids to school, go to supermarket, need to go and get new shoes, walk back to car via card shop. Go home.Write card and go to post box. Pick up the kids. Visit mother in evening. None of these journeys or small amounts of walking would be unreasonable, and perhaps one of two more might be required. Communication could however be required 24/7.
You need to be able to do all the required repeats acceptably safely and within the appropriate time for each descriptor. If you fail to repeat except for a trivial time eg 5 mins of the day you can't communicate you can achieve points in accordance with the level of disability under the relevant descriptor.
A descriptor will be met if you can't achieve any/all of the 4 criteria for the majority of days. This means that if you have a better day every so often, that won't preclude points/award of PIP.
Fatigue could also comprise non acceptable standard. It is easy to consider each descriptor task in isolation. Think about the descriptors holistically.
So...if I asked you, do you cook? - if you told me yes, but only when I don't go walking, and it's not the day I have a bath. This would suggest you can't repeat all the activities across the day. Likewise if fatigue, pain breathlessness increase in blood pressure, etc makes activities too slow, this might indicate a problem with repetition as well as being unacceptable standard, and perhaps not safe.
Filling out PIP forms requires a bit of lateral thinking. Consider what makes the activity difficult or impossible. If you had help, why would you need it, and what help would be required. Is it always at the same time, or does it depend on energy/pain levels etc? Try and quantify the help you get, or realistically should have. Disabled people who live alone or have little help often have a stark choice- try and do something, - it may take a while, be only half done, it may risk safety etc, but the alternative is to sit in the chair and do nothing.
Be realistic as to your limitations!
If walking (or other descriptor activity) is now worse or needs more help, is now much slower, more unsafe etc, then a higher points value is appropriate, and this may be more than what you scored last time.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- anees292
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1 year 1 month ago #283893 by anees292
Replied by anees292 on topic Mobility clarification
LL26 is here
Thanks for details answer as always.
Thanks for details answer as always.
The following user(s) said Thank You: LL26
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- Ingy
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1 year 1 month ago #283929 by Ingy
Replied by Ingy on topic Mobility clarification
Thank you for my replies, very much appreciated.
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