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MR not budging.
- Judy
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3 years 4 months ago #265435 by Judy
MR not budging. was created by Judy
The pip assessment took my enhanced dl away and put it to standard. MR have come out fighting. They say that because I'm still (rarely) driving an automatic car that that is a multitasking activity requiring significant physical function in terms of grip, power and upper and lower joint movements in conjunction with substantial cognitive powers of thought, perception, memory, reasoning, concentration, judgement and co ordination. And if as I claimed my functioning was more affected then I would not be fit to drive and could be a severe danger on the road. There is no evidence that the dvla have been informed as such. Dvla are aware that I have sleep apnoea and I have the letters to prove that. So long as I comply with my apnoea machine they are ok with that. I don't actually drive very often and told the assessor that it's probably once a month, but more likely to be every three months.

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- LL26
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3 years 4 months ago #265437 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic MR not budging.
Hi Judy,
The 'you can drive, you can do everything' stance from DWP is seriously frustrating, as well as being incorrect. However now it seems that there is added menace by DWP saying either you are exaggerating your disability, or alternatively you shouldn't be driving! I have noticed the latter comments appearing with more and more regularity.
I was actually discussing the you can drive scenario with an OT friend this morning.
An interesting point that she made was of course that normally you hold a steering wheel with both hands! Holding a knife and manipulating to cut or peel, requires coordination along the whole arm, so this requires more brain power and spatial awareness. Also, you hold the knife, and then have to hold the carrot! It is entirely possible to go somewhere without really needing to turn the wheel much, also the only movement is a rotation in a fixed plane. Try peeling/chopping/dressing without moving hands or arms backwards or forwards or even side to side and it will become virtually impossible. Of course an automatic car requires less coordination than a manual.
Nevertheless, you don't drive very often, and I susoect you don't go very far either. Maybe you always go to the same place/s? So there is a familiarity about where you go. If you think about vegetables they are all slightly different to hold, and of course require somewhat differing chopping motions to deal with them. This also requires more thought power. Likewise clothes all fit in slightly different ways so a tight shirt or one with a baggy collar requires a somewhat different manoeuvre to get it on. Your car is always the same. Presumably the seat and wheel are always in the same (relative) positions. Of course the wheel attaches to the car, so you can't drop it either! The only real difference on each journey is the road ahead, but again less so if that is well known. The grip on a car wheel is very different to grip required to chop or do buttons.
What I therefore think you need to do is to try and think about your grip, bodily movements involved with driving and similarly with chopping, dressing etc. or whatever activity DWP equates to driving.
I don't know whether you are even able to hold a knife, but whatever the 'problem' activity is, think about how you do it. Let's use a knife as an example. First question can you actually hold it and cut? How tight is the grip, how do you wrap the fingers? Is it secure? If you can't actually use a knife, find a piece of wood or something knife sized to pretend to cut or chop. (So you don't hurt yourself) what can or can't you do? Maybe get a friend to help. Analyse everything you can and can't do. You can do the same grip analysis with your car- sit in the car on the drive and with the engine off, pretend to drive. What do you need to do to move off, steer etc? If you can't do this, then a friend could help.
Once you have done this, you will have all the relevant information to strongly refute the you can drive scenario.Use bullet points to make a snappy letter.
Of course mention that DVLA are aware. Assuming you have had no accidents or near misses say so! So basically say eg I have adequate grip and concentration to drive a car but can not peel a potato or carry a small saucepan because.... and you can then explain.
I think it is best to concentrate on why you can drive safely, but why you can't do other activities at all/safely/take too long. If you say you don't drive often, that might lead DWP to conclude that you can't really control a car, and because you don't go out often it doesn't matter. Much better to argue the different skill sets involved.
I hope that helps.
The you can drive scenario is a myth that needs to be thoroughly.
Good luck.
LL26
The 'you can drive, you can do everything' stance from DWP is seriously frustrating, as well as being incorrect. However now it seems that there is added menace by DWP saying either you are exaggerating your disability, or alternatively you shouldn't be driving! I have noticed the latter comments appearing with more and more regularity.
I was actually discussing the you can drive scenario with an OT friend this morning.
An interesting point that she made was of course that normally you hold a steering wheel with both hands! Holding a knife and manipulating to cut or peel, requires coordination along the whole arm, so this requires more brain power and spatial awareness. Also, you hold the knife, and then have to hold the carrot! It is entirely possible to go somewhere without really needing to turn the wheel much, also the only movement is a rotation in a fixed plane. Try peeling/chopping/dressing without moving hands or arms backwards or forwards or even side to side and it will become virtually impossible. Of course an automatic car requires less coordination than a manual.
Nevertheless, you don't drive very often, and I susoect you don't go very far either. Maybe you always go to the same place/s? So there is a familiarity about where you go. If you think about vegetables they are all slightly different to hold, and of course require somewhat differing chopping motions to deal with them. This also requires more thought power. Likewise clothes all fit in slightly different ways so a tight shirt or one with a baggy collar requires a somewhat different manoeuvre to get it on. Your car is always the same. Presumably the seat and wheel are always in the same (relative) positions. Of course the wheel attaches to the car, so you can't drop it either! The only real difference on each journey is the road ahead, but again less so if that is well known. The grip on a car wheel is very different to grip required to chop or do buttons.
What I therefore think you need to do is to try and think about your grip, bodily movements involved with driving and similarly with chopping, dressing etc. or whatever activity DWP equates to driving.
I don't know whether you are even able to hold a knife, but whatever the 'problem' activity is, think about how you do it. Let's use a knife as an example. First question can you actually hold it and cut? How tight is the grip, how do you wrap the fingers? Is it secure? If you can't actually use a knife, find a piece of wood or something knife sized to pretend to cut or chop. (So you don't hurt yourself) what can or can't you do? Maybe get a friend to help. Analyse everything you can and can't do. You can do the same grip analysis with your car- sit in the car on the drive and with the engine off, pretend to drive. What do you need to do to move off, steer etc? If you can't do this, then a friend could help.
Once you have done this, you will have all the relevant information to strongly refute the you can drive scenario.Use bullet points to make a snappy letter.
Of course mention that DVLA are aware. Assuming you have had no accidents or near misses say so! So basically say eg I have adequate grip and concentration to drive a car but can not peel a potato or carry a small saucepan because.... and you can then explain.
I think it is best to concentrate on why you can drive safely, but why you can't do other activities at all/safely/take too long. If you say you don't drive often, that might lead DWP to conclude that you can't really control a car, and because you don't go out often it doesn't matter. Much better to argue the different skill sets involved.
I hope that helps.
The you can drive scenario is a myth that needs to be thoroughly.
Good luck.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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