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PIP decision - 0 points
- louisegrieves
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3 years 4 months ago #265457 by louisegrieves
PIP decision - 0 points was created by louisegrieves
Hi
First post, sorry if its confusing, but I am really struggling. Its taken me 4 hours just to write this!
I was awarded 0 points for PIP.
It appears that the DM has based his decision entirely on the tick boxes in the PA4 without considering PIP2 form or the actual content collected by the HP.
The Health Professional Assessor, a nurse (not mental health) said in my MSE the following statements:
Interaction normal. Coped well at interview. Normal manner. Not anxious, agitated or tense. Adequate rapport. Speech normal. Not hostile or withdrawn. No evidence of cognitive impairment. Fully alert and oriented. Answered questions appropriately. Participated and engaged well. Had adequate general memory and concentration.
This is not true.
I was extremely anxious and crying throughout the interview. I had to have my phone on loudspeaker as I could not hold it for shaking. There were frequent pauses as I tried to recall things or read through my notes to answer questions as my memory and concentration are well below adequate, as is my cognition. We discussed how my cognition has affected me, that I can't concentrate to read or understand things, I forget things, make mistakes, became unable to do my job. I explained that I do very little in a typical day and have no hobbies or interests as I struggle to learn or retain anything, i can't concentrate to read and immediately forget what I have read. I don't eat, wash or get dressed without prompting from my partner. I don't see or speak to anyone except my partner, mum, sister and therapist due to severe anxiety. I cannot leave the house unless my partner takes me for a drive which is at most 3 times a month. I have frequent suicidal thoughts and hit myself a lot.
The HP has then used the MSE alone, as evidence that I can do every activity. For example "MSE shows she was not withdrawn and did not need prompting, which suggests she should be able to reliably was and bathe independently". This statement has been copied and pasted for each activity stating at least 2 of the following:
that I was not withdrawn; did not need prompting; had good insight; adequate general memory and concentration; did not appear tense. The HP has not used any evidence from the PIP2 form or the history recorded during our conversation.
The HP also wrote "Despite the reported health conditions, she appears to be functioning adequately in all activities."
I am requesting Mandatory Reconsideration. How can I challenge this when every decision has been based on the HP's incorrect assumption of my Mental State over a 45 minute telephone conversation?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
First post, sorry if its confusing, but I am really struggling. Its taken me 4 hours just to write this!
I was awarded 0 points for PIP.
It appears that the DM has based his decision entirely on the tick boxes in the PA4 without considering PIP2 form or the actual content collected by the HP.
The Health Professional Assessor, a nurse (not mental health) said in my MSE the following statements:
Interaction normal. Coped well at interview. Normal manner. Not anxious, agitated or tense. Adequate rapport. Speech normal. Not hostile or withdrawn. No evidence of cognitive impairment. Fully alert and oriented. Answered questions appropriately. Participated and engaged well. Had adequate general memory and concentration.
This is not true.
I was extremely anxious and crying throughout the interview. I had to have my phone on loudspeaker as I could not hold it for shaking. There were frequent pauses as I tried to recall things or read through my notes to answer questions as my memory and concentration are well below adequate, as is my cognition. We discussed how my cognition has affected me, that I can't concentrate to read or understand things, I forget things, make mistakes, became unable to do my job. I explained that I do very little in a typical day and have no hobbies or interests as I struggle to learn or retain anything, i can't concentrate to read and immediately forget what I have read. I don't eat, wash or get dressed without prompting from my partner. I don't see or speak to anyone except my partner, mum, sister and therapist due to severe anxiety. I cannot leave the house unless my partner takes me for a drive which is at most 3 times a month. I have frequent suicidal thoughts and hit myself a lot.
The HP has then used the MSE alone, as evidence that I can do every activity. For example "MSE shows she was not withdrawn and did not need prompting, which suggests she should be able to reliably was and bathe independently". This statement has been copied and pasted for each activity stating at least 2 of the following:
that I was not withdrawn; did not need prompting; had good insight; adequate general memory and concentration; did not appear tense. The HP has not used any evidence from the PIP2 form or the history recorded during our conversation.
The HP also wrote "Despite the reported health conditions, she appears to be functioning adequately in all activities."
I am requesting Mandatory Reconsideration. How can I challenge this when every decision has been based on the HP's incorrect assumption of my Mental State over a 45 minute telephone conversation?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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- LL26
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3 years 4 months ago #265465 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic PIP decision - 0 points
Hi Louise,
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles with your PIP claim. Firstly this is by no means unusual, I am aware of many people who have had similar incorrect comments made in their decision notice. The good news is that it is perfectly possible to argue these assumptions and inaccuracies and go from zero points to enhance rates of both components.
It seems like you have already got a copy of the PA4 form. You have already identified 2 issues, the incorrect mental state, and the use of cut and paste. Both are common problems! Maybe there are other obvious problems. Don’t linger on trying to right every error, just concentrate on one or two. So, there may not be any need to find more fault than you have already.
Yo can write your MR letter as follows- simply copy the post on here. It is actually very succinct. Delete the first paragraph ie
"First post, sorry if its confusing, but I am really struggling. Its taken me 4 hours just to write this!" and delete the last paragraph, everything after "I am requesting Mandatory Reconsideration."
Then go through each descriptor, stating hour problems etc, so, as an example
Taking Nutrition
You have awarded zero points. I lack motivation to eat, and do not feel hungry. I ws diagnosed with anorexia in 2015. Unless prompted I simply do not eat My partner prepares all my meals and prompts me to eat these, and sits with me to ensure that I do eat the food, and keep the food down. The Assessor has ignored the severe anxiety I have, and as explained above has simply used an incorrectly cut and pasted comment without taking into account the full nature of my illness/disabilities. As a result I should have been awarded 4 points -2e.
Write a similar paragraph about each activity. Give examples of what happens as well wherever you can. If you agree with zero points you can say under the appropriate heading thst you can manage the activity unaided.
Enclose any medical evidence (again!) And maybe a letter from your partner explaining in full detail the help given. Make sure you include your full name and NI number on all pages. Keep a full copy and send recorded delivery. Remember that this really needs to be sent within a month if the decision, so you may not have much time to do this However if you can not complete this in the time available and can show a reasonable excuse, a late MR may be accepted. (Such excuse could comprise your health if this causes you relevant difficulties.) There us an absolute maximum of 13 months after the decision date, it is very unlikely that an MR this late will be allowed unless there is an exceptionally good reason.
Hopefully this will work. However, if not then it is very likely that a tribunal will allow your appeal
Good luck .
LL26
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles with your PIP claim. Firstly this is by no means unusual, I am aware of many people who have had similar incorrect comments made in their decision notice. The good news is that it is perfectly possible to argue these assumptions and inaccuracies and go from zero points to enhance rates of both components.
It seems like you have already got a copy of the PA4 form. You have already identified 2 issues, the incorrect mental state, and the use of cut and paste. Both are common problems! Maybe there are other obvious problems. Don’t linger on trying to right every error, just concentrate on one or two. So, there may not be any need to find more fault than you have already.
Yo can write your MR letter as follows- simply copy the post on here. It is actually very succinct. Delete the first paragraph ie
"First post, sorry if its confusing, but I am really struggling. Its taken me 4 hours just to write this!" and delete the last paragraph, everything after "I am requesting Mandatory Reconsideration."
Then go through each descriptor, stating hour problems etc, so, as an example
Taking Nutrition
You have awarded zero points. I lack motivation to eat, and do not feel hungry. I ws diagnosed with anorexia in 2015. Unless prompted I simply do not eat My partner prepares all my meals and prompts me to eat these, and sits with me to ensure that I do eat the food, and keep the food down. The Assessor has ignored the severe anxiety I have, and as explained above has simply used an incorrectly cut and pasted comment without taking into account the full nature of my illness/disabilities. As a result I should have been awarded 4 points -2e.
Write a similar paragraph about each activity. Give examples of what happens as well wherever you can. If you agree with zero points you can say under the appropriate heading thst you can manage the activity unaided.
Enclose any medical evidence (again!) And maybe a letter from your partner explaining in full detail the help given. Make sure you include your full name and NI number on all pages. Keep a full copy and send recorded delivery. Remember that this really needs to be sent within a month if the decision, so you may not have much time to do this However if you can not complete this in the time available and can show a reasonable excuse, a late MR may be accepted. (Such excuse could comprise your health if this causes you relevant difficulties.) There us an absolute maximum of 13 months after the decision date, it is very unlikely that an MR this late will be allowed unless there is an exceptionally good reason.
Hopefully this will work. However, if not then it is very likely that a tribunal will allow your appeal
Good luck .
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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3 years 4 months ago #265467 by denby
Replied by denby on topic PIP decision - 0 points
Dear Louise, I am sure a Mod will be along soon to give a more detailed answer. However just to get started, firstly so very sorry to hear that like so many other people with mental health problems you have been totally abused and taken advantage of by a dishonest assessor and DM.
Please do not let this get you down more than a little if you can, as everyone here will be praying/vibing/whatever for justice for you.
The first thing to do is phone or ask your partner/mum etc to call for you, to request the actual PA4. Seeing this will give you the base for writing your MR. From the sound of it you have a great deal to complain of. When you write it is best to avoid "she/he lied" way of writing. Write eg "x is factually incorrect because....."
When a report contains lots of cut and paste, you can say this is a reason why the report is "not fit for purpose." That is a useful strong phrase. The lack of inclusion of evidence can be used as another reason it is "not fit for purpose".
I hope these short notes are some encouragement. Please Louise, do not let the [choose your own word for bad people!] get you down. If waiting for the PA4, and your poor MH mean you cannot do a full MR in one month from the decision letter,, do ask DWP for an extension for these reasons.
Best wishes,
Denby
Please do not let this get you down more than a little if you can, as everyone here will be praying/vibing/whatever for justice for you.
The first thing to do is phone or ask your partner/mum etc to call for you, to request the actual PA4. Seeing this will give you the base for writing your MR. From the sound of it you have a great deal to complain of. When you write it is best to avoid "she/he lied" way of writing. Write eg "x is factually incorrect because....."
When a report contains lots of cut and paste, you can say this is a reason why the report is "not fit for purpose." That is a useful strong phrase. The lack of inclusion of evidence can be used as another reason it is "not fit for purpose".
I hope these short notes are some encouragement. Please Louise, do not let the [choose your own word for bad people!] get you down. If waiting for the PA4, and your poor MH mean you cannot do a full MR in one month from the decision letter,, do ask DWP for an extension for these reasons.
Best wishes,
Denby
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- louisegrieves
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3 years 4 months ago #265482 by louisegrieves
Replied by louisegrieves on topic PIP decision - 0 points
Thank you so much for your reply.
I only have a week left to get my MR in as the decision letter took a week to get to me, then a further week to receive the PA4, then spent much of this week trying to fathom out how to respond! If I send a MR letter with the content you have suggested, can I submit further info afterwards if necessary, just so I don't miss the deadline?
I only have a week left to get my MR in as the decision letter took a week to get to me, then a further week to receive the PA4, then spent much of this week trying to fathom out how to respond! If I send a MR letter with the content you have suggested, can I submit further info afterwards if necessary, just so I don't miss the deadline?
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3 years 4 months ago #265485 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic PIP decision - 0 points
Hi Louise
You could ring and ask if they will give you an extension (they don't as a matter off practice for MRs - but I have known them to and these are not normal times). You could say that more is following, but they might ignore it and you also don't know how long it will take to be processed if the evidence arrives in separate parts. If you are struggling to get it all down - you say so at the end of the letter and explain that due to your mental health difficulties which have been well documented (though largely ignored by the assessor) that you have not been able to go in as much depth as you hoped.
BIS
You could ring and ask if they will give you an extension (they don't as a matter off practice for MRs - but I have known them to and these are not normal times). You could say that more is following, but they might ignore it and you also don't know how long it will take to be processed if the evidence arrives in separate parts. If you are struggling to get it all down - you say so at the end of the letter and explain that due to your mental health difficulties which have been well documented (though largely ignored by the assessor) that you have not been able to go in as much depth as you hoped.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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3 years 4 months ago #265506 by phrank
Replied by phrank on topic PIP decision - 0 points
Hi Louise,
....just to add to the excellent advice you have received so far - Denby is quite rightly advising you to refrain from calling the assessor a 'liar'. I used to use this approach and it got me nowhere, it was a hard lesson to learn.
I usually write something like: 'In my opinion the assessor had insufficient knowledge of my mental health issues and therefore misled the decision maker into coming to the wrong conclusion and therefore denying me the award I am entitled to'.
As long as you are diplomatic in your approach, don't be afraid to be brave in saying what you believe in.
This approach has worked well for me personally, and although there are no rules, this diplomatic approach, written with a firm hand, is the method I have used successfully for a few years.
Regards,
Phrank.
....just to add to the excellent advice you have received so far - Denby is quite rightly advising you to refrain from calling the assessor a 'liar'. I used to use this approach and it got me nowhere, it was a hard lesson to learn.
I usually write something like: 'In my opinion the assessor had insufficient knowledge of my mental health issues and therefore misled the decision maker into coming to the wrong conclusion and therefore denying me the award I am entitled to'.
As long as you are diplomatic in your approach, don't be afraid to be brave in saying what you believe in.
This approach has worked well for me personally, and although there are no rules, this diplomatic approach, written with a firm hand, is the method I have used successfully for a few years.
Regards,
Phrank.
The following user(s) said Thank You: an ex nurse, denby, Catherine, louisegrieves
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