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Recorded assessment now need to use it to appeal

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3 years 4 months ago #265560 by donnastreet
Hi, i supported my husband through a phone call assessment and recorded it without their knowledge. The decision was made and we dropped from higher to lower rate daily care. We really thought the assessor was very supportive, and agreed and prompted us alot but of course, the assessment we are now reading does not resemble the phonecall in any way!!!! Of course, i never told them i was recording it, i told the decision maker i made plenty of notes...how do i get around the fact that i need to use the recording to prove shes an outright liar...do i tell them or say i took notes and, as we wil take this to tribunal, do i mention it in the future?!

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3 years 4 months ago #265575 by LL26
Hi donna,
Firstly it seems that your full name is showing so you may want to amend that.
You can use this link. www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/component/users/profile

It is not illegal to make a recording. Of course, if you had told DWP you were making a recording, then it very likely that they would have stopped the assessment and this would have caused more delays, if another assessment was needed. Or worse, DWP say that basically because you made the recording the assessment has to stop and they treat you as failing to comply with DWP instructions = no PIP!
However, you have made a covert recording, and this will now show the inaccuracies of the assessment.
A recent case confirmed that covert recordings can be used.
Firstly, make sure that you have a back up copy of the recording - this is really important!
You may wish to make a full transcript of the recording, but that is not strictly necessary at this stage. It may be helpful, as you can then more easily refer to the relevant paragraph/page etc.
After you have made a back up copy, which you keep safely and never touch, make a copy for DWP. This will probably need to be on a CD.
As for your MR - it really isn't productive to state that the assessor is a liar. By all means say the assessor clearly didn't record properly, or misunderstood, and that the report is inaccurate.
It is very easy to write a 20 page essay complaining about every inaccuracy in an assessment report. Whilst you may wish to rant, again this is not going to help. The decision maker at DWP will just see a ream of paper, may not understand or won't be bothered to read everything and will just ignore what you have written. There is a better way!
Using your notes/transcript, try and work out the biggest/most important errors with the report.
Things to look out for are rudeness/ major factual inaccuracy. (If the village shop that you walk to is 27 metres away rather than 37 m as recorded by the assessor it's not going to make any difference.)
Recent issues that many B&W members have noticed is that ability to drive seems to mean that you can peel and chop vegetables, and not burn the saucepan. (Perhaps you don't even drive, but if you do, I suspect that you realise that the grip of a steering wheel is very different to the grip for a knife!) Other issues include 'no specialist' and therefore illness can't be serious - but especially since the pandemic specialists and indeed GPs are difficult to get appointments with, and the other one is 'takes no medication' perhaps this is correct, but it may be due to side effects, or of course it may be that your condition can't be medicated - eg autism or amputation.
All the latter issues could be classed as incorrect assumptions.
So, your MR could be
EG that the the report is unreliable, in that the assessor
1. made many sweeping assumptions -
2. was rude and impolite
3. recorded what was said incorrectly on several occasions
4. failed to note that I was sobbing throughout and very short of breath
Then say that this is evidenced through a recording that you made at the time of the assessment. Explain how the recording was made, and that you enclose a copy of an unedited version, and/or transcript.

You can then write a brief paragraph about each heading, expanding/explaining giving say 2 or 3 examples of the worst faults. Use bullet points. Refer to the transcript/CD by paragraph or eg at 3mins 49...
You can then go onto to explain the correct points you should have been awarded under each descriptor. (Put a heading for each activity and then explain. Use examples of where things went wrong eg fall, neglect, other difficulties etc.)
Send the MR with the CD/transcript.

I think that you also ought to send a complaint to the assessment provider. This can be along similar lines to the MR but ignore the correct points' award paragraph, and simply focus on the inaccuracies. You may wish to expand a little on these here, but again, do not mention every error, just focus on the major ones. You can mention in your MR that you have made a complaint.
In your complaint head this COMPLAINT
Dear Sirs,
I wish to complain about the manner of the assessment held on X date/time. [Then include the major complaints as listed above for MR/bullet points - and explain you have a recording etc as per MR suggestion]
Then say eg (as relevant to the nature of your complaint)
eg I do not believe that the assessor was fair/the assessor showed a complete disregard for my answers/the assessor was rude and condescending .....etc etc
If there was any aftermath such as anxiety for several days etc say so.
Then say eg
Please confirm what measures you have taken
1. to ensure that this assessor acts appropriately during assessments
2. what general staff training you have taken to ensure that similar events do not recur in the future.
Yours faithfully
signed
enclose CD/transcript - send to the assessment provider
Always put name/NI Number on all pieces of paper.
Keep copies of all letters.
Send as tracked mail.
I hope this helps.
Good luck.
LL26

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: denby

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3 years 4 months ago #265587 by donnastreet
Replied by donnastreet on topic Recorded assessment now need to use it to appeal
Thank you. Yes she mentions driving alot, even though its an automatic! And she constantly refers to manual dexterity even though we havent mentioned there is a problem with grip etc. She also states theres no mental health input yet we had sent evidence he sees his gp frequently regarding mental health and medication changes aswell as being in counselling for a year and awaiting cbt. She makes comments about him being calm and unprompted but its clear on the recording that i do alot of the talking especially as he gets more flustered towards the end. Shes written alot of what we said in the functional history but then makes no reference to it in justification. Weve won enhanced twice at tribunal so far, but there are many times she states for example that his extreme hernia belt doesnt fall under the remit of therapy or under the remit of clothing so if she says that where does it fall?! Judges have agreed twice now the his belt is upper clothing as he wears it 24/7 but she just said, nope doesnt count..however in the phone call she makes agreement noises as we explain the judges decision!

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3 years 4 months ago #265593 by LL26
Hi Mama,
I think the hernia belt could fall either under clothing OR therapy, but I don't think that it could comprise points under both. There has been caselaw about duplicate points - ie scoring points for the same thing under two sections. As suggested in my previous post, select the major faults and bullet point them. You can always include a paragraph at the end to sweep up other less important errors, such as condescending attitude, report of poor quality as it is littered with spelling errors etc.
All of the answers are typed on the assessor's computer. I think (not that I am defending DWP) that sometimes the previous entry hasn't necessarily been cleared, or perhaps there is a memory glitch, and the previous claimant's answers get transposed into your answers. One of my clients was allegedly looking after a ferret. This seemed such a random comment for DWP to make that it must have come from somewhere, hence my suspicion. I do also wonder if perhaps the computer operates like a series of doors. If you put in answer A to question 1, the assessor is told to ask question 2. However if the answer to question 1 is B, then the assessor is prompted to ask question 3. If at any point the assessor makes a typo or incorrect assumption he or she may not be prompted to ask other, more suitable questions, and then it is easy to see how the assessment might go off at a tangent. Go through the wrong door, end up in the wrong place! This is only a theory!
DWP including assessors never seem to like what judges have to say!
Good luck with your letter.
LL26

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

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