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Advice about PIP points

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3 years 1 month ago #266691 by Jerri
Advice about PIP points was created by Jerri
Hi,

Just after a bit of advice. I applied for PIP last year and filled the form in using the fantastic guides here. Got my award letter today and I’ve been given standard rate for both mobility and daily living.

All of the points and explanation for those decisions look correct besides preparing food. Which is what I’d like some advice about.

I’ve been given two points for preparing food. I feel this is wrong as I’m physically unable to stand long enough to even make a drink.

But I don’t know if I should ask for a mandatory reconsideration in regards to that as I’m not sure what exactly the points mean and if they apply to my me.

8 points is ‘can not cook or prepare food’.

Does that mean can not physically prepare food or can not prepare or cook food due to mental health, learning disability etc (If I was physically able to stand then I’d be able to prepare food just fine, I just can’t do so right now as I can’t stand for more than 30 seconds and can’t walk more than a few feet). Or both?

If it’s both then I feel I’ve been given the wrong points as I can not prepare food. And if I was given the 8 points for that then I’d go from standard to enhanced.

And if it does mean both do I appeal? In all honesty I’m just really happy I got awarded it at all and there’s an element of not wanting to rock the boat.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks.

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3 years 1 month ago #266722 by peter
Replied by peter on topic Advice about PIP points
Hi Jerri,

First, well done on completing difficult forms and successfully being awarded the standard rates.

My experience of the “preparing a meal” section is that the assessor is looking primarily for tools required to prepare the food (e.g. adapted utensils and tools). You haven’t said whether you need any of these.

So the assessor may consider that you could readily do the actual preparation of the food (peeling and chopping etc) sitting down. I certainly sit down to prepare the food although I do use adapted tools.

I, too, find standing for any length of time difficult but not to the same extent as you.

Again, it might be in both our cases that the assessor might suggest the meal you prepared could be cooked in an oven or microwave. They may assume that you would sit or perch during the cooking. They may even assume that you could perch while at the cooker.

I am not saying that are right by the way, merely suggesting what they may conclude.

My personal view, based only on what you said in your message, is that you would not benefit from going to mandatory reconsideration. However if you are prepared to put in the additional effort and take on the additional stress, you could attempt it.

I wish you well with whatever you decide.

Best wishes
Peter

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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3 years 1 month ago #266724 by Asbo
Replied by Asbo on topic Advice about PIP points
In my last PIP I felt I should have had points for needing to be prompted i.e. woken up to eat. I sleep early evening and probably wouldn't bother if I wasn't woke up. I felt I could have argued it and I think in the guides here it is mentioned that this should count strictly speaking but I didn't fight it as I already had enough points. I don't know but I think it might be a harder one to argue than other descriptors
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3 years 1 month ago - 3 years 1 month ago #266729 by LL26
Replied by LL26 on topic Advice about PIP points
Hi Jerri,
What Pete has said is correct.
Unfortunately you haven't said which descriptor gave you 2 points for preparing food. I assume it is 1b- aid or appliance. You will note that 1a is being able to manage 'unaided'. If you can chop, peel read recipes, assess if food is properly cooked etc, not burn food, and remember to turn off the cooker, all without prompting, then you 'can cook'. However, in your circumstances you can not do these things whilst standing. If you sit you are fine. One of the 'aids/appliances' that DWP would expect that would therefore facilitate cooking would be a perching stool. This actually is an official disability gadget. It is basically a foldaway stool that you can move next to the cooker or work surface to permit sitting at the stove. Or it just could be a suitable household chair or stool you already have. By awarding 2 pts under 1b, DWP are basically saying that if you had an aid/appliance, such as a stool, then you can do all cooking activities without the help of another person for the majority of the time.
Under the PIP Regulations if more than one activity in a descriptor section applies the highest score should be given, providing the difficulty occurs for the majority of the time. (There are further rules about when several descriptors within a section apply for a lesser time )
Under Descr.1 there are various 2 point activities, so the only way to achieve more points would be to argue physical assistance or supervision ie from a person or the can't cook option. As explained above can't cook will never apply until all the previous options have been discounted. So you can't use an aid, human help, or prompting won't work and you don't/can't use a microwave and hence you really can't cook!
Of course if you only received 8 points total under all the Daily Living activities, then the only possible scenario to achieve Enhanced Rate only using extra points under the cooking descriptor is where you qualify under 1f can't cook. Since you have 2 points already, everything else apart from 1e and 1f still only provide 2 pts. 1e is 4 pts. You can only score under one activity per section, so if you have 2pts under eg 1b, if that was swapped for 1e the net increase is only 2pts which won't be enough to get Enhanced Rate, if you only have an 8pt Daily Living total.
Needless to say there is probably a bit of politics involved here, and perhaps rightly so. It is very seldom that on the Daily Living activities that DWP awards the maximum points for "I can't do at all" options and if it was awarded the claimant would of course be profoundly disabled, probably in many areas. Conversely, and perhaps more controversially, DWP will often award 2 pts eg for aid/appliance even though more points can be argued. If you have a clear and obvious case to show more points then it can be worthwhile pursuing an appeal, ( first by sending in a letter asking to reconsider- called Mandatory Reconsideration, or subsequently to a tribunal if MR doesn't work.) There is a potential small risk that DWP or tribunal will reduce an award if you do appeal, and there is undoubtedly a hassle factor as well as the stress of preparing the appeal and dealing with it if you do proceed.
From what you say, there doesn't seem to be a obvious chance to succeed at appeal, and I agree with Pete that given all the hassle etc it wouldn't be worthwhile doing this.
I hope this helps to give a bit more insight into the PIP process.
LL26

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 3 years 1 month ago by LL26. Reason: Spelling
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3 years 1 month ago #266730 by Jerri
Replied by Jerri on topic Advice about PIP points

Hi Jerri,

First, well done on completing difficult forms and successfully being awarded the standard rates.

My experience of the “preparing a meal” section is that the assessor is looking primarily for tools required to prepare the food (e.g. adapted utensils and tools). You haven’t said whether you need any of these.

So the assessor may consider that you could readily do the actual preparation of the food (peeling and chopping etc) sitting down. I certainly sit down to prepare the food although I do use adapted tools.

I, too, find standing for any length of time difficult but not to the same extent as you.

Again, it might be in both our cases that the assessor might suggest the meal you prepared could be cooked in an oven or microwave. They may assume that you would sit or perch during the cooking. They may even assume that you could perch while at the cooker.

I am not saying that are right by the way, merely suggesting what they may conclude.

My personal view, based only on what you said in your message, is that you would not benefit from going to mandatory reconsideration. However if you are prepared to put in the additional effort and take on the additional stress, you could attempt it.

I wish you well with whatever you decide.

Best wishes
Peter

Hi,

Thanks so much for the reply.

No, that makes perfect sense and was pretty much why I was posting, I did tell the assessor that if I had a perching stool I could cook, but there's no room in the kitchen for there to safely be one.

As I wasn't sure, I thought no harm in asking. So again, thanks for the reply.
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