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ESA Chewing or swallowing food or drink descriptor
- craig3474
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3 years 1 month ago #266957 by craig3474
ESA Chewing or swallowing food or drink descriptor was created by craig3474
I was placed in the Support Group many years ago as descriptor 'Cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort; due to choking/aspirating on food/drink due to surgery for head and Neck cancer.
But i have recently recognised, in the updated Assessment Guidance for DWP Book 2020, the DWP have updated this descriptor as This descriptor applies when the claimant: Is unable to eat BUT could drink
OR Is unable to drink BUT could eat OR Is unable to eat and is unable to drink.
Although it may seem straight forward, I'm not sure what it means in legalisation. The descriptor says 'Cannot swallow food 'OR' drink. But the DWP has recently said, its either one or the other. So if one CANNOT eat BOTH food & drink without repeatedly stopping to to severe discomfort, one would NOT score points, as they are consuming both food and drink?
But i have recently recognised, in the updated Assessment Guidance for DWP Book 2020, the DWP have updated this descriptor as This descriptor applies when the claimant: Is unable to eat BUT could drink
OR Is unable to drink BUT could eat OR Is unable to eat and is unable to drink.
Although it may seem straight forward, I'm not sure what it means in legalisation. The descriptor says 'Cannot swallow food 'OR' drink. But the DWP has recently said, its either one or the other. So if one CANNOT eat BOTH food & drink without repeatedly stopping to to severe discomfort, one would NOT score points, as they are consuming both food and drink?
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- LL26
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3 years 1 month ago - 3 years 1 month ago #266968 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic ESA Chewing or swallowing food or drink descriptor
Hi cj3474,
I am not totally familiar with this descriptor as it doesn't arise very often. I managed to find some caselaw which says as follows :
"The first “or” was conjunctive and the second “or” was disjunctive in the phrase “cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort”. Accordingly, the meaning of the expression “cannot chew or swallow food or drink”, which appears in descriptors 16(a), (b) and (c), effectively meant “cannot either chew and swallow food or swallow drink”...
[2015] UKUT 304 (AAC)Reported as [2016] AACR 1CE/5261/2014
I hope this clarifies.
I'm afraid I can't help any further.
LL26
I am not totally familiar with this descriptor as it doesn't arise very often. I managed to find some caselaw which says as follows :
"The first “or” was conjunctive and the second “or” was disjunctive in the phrase “cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort”. Accordingly, the meaning of the expression “cannot chew or swallow food or drink”, which appears in descriptors 16(a), (b) and (c), effectively meant “cannot either chew and swallow food or swallow drink”...
[2015] UKUT 304 (AAC)Reported as [2016] AACR 1CE/5261/2014
I hope this clarifies.
I'm afraid I can't help any further.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 3 years 1 month ago by LL26. Reason: Omission.
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- craig3474
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3 years 1 month ago #266978 by craig3474
Replied by craig3474 on topic ESA Chewing or swallowing food or drink descriptor
Thank you for you’re reply LL26. I’m also understanding that too. There isn’t much information regarding that descriptor.
So somebody suffering from Dyphagia who eats a little due choking and pain, but is also able to drink, although aspirates liquid majority of time, would not score points as they are eating and drinking
One last thing, in the DWP handbook, for this descriptor, it could apply for somebody who have had treatment for head and neck cancer. Would you think it’s appropriate to quote that guidance to the DM in a ESA/UC form or would you consider it being cocky?
Thanks again
So somebody suffering from Dyphagia who eats a little due choking and pain, but is also able to drink, although aspirates liquid majority of time, would not score points as they are eating and drinking
One last thing, in the DWP handbook, for this descriptor, it could apply for somebody who have had treatment for head and neck cancer. Would you think it’s appropriate to quote that guidance to the DM in a ESA/UC form or would you consider it being cocky?
Thanks again
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3 years 1 month ago #267013 by craig3474
Replied by craig3474 on topic ESA Chewing or swallowing food or drink descriptor
Thank you LL27
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- Gary
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3 years 1 month ago - 3 years 1 month ago #267126 by Gary
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Replied by Gary on topic ESA Chewing or swallowing food or drink descriptor
Hi cj3474
Gordon answered this question a little while ago which I thought was nicely laid out.
I would think that problems with eating fall into three areas that I'll label; aversion, ritual and depressive.
Aversion would cover illnesses such as anorexia and bulimia where a claimant won't eat to eat food without supervision or having eaten they have to watched to ensure that they don't try and get rid of it.
Ritual would cover conditions such as OCD and possibly ASD where the claimant may only eat the food if it is presented in a particular manner or maybe the food has to be prepared in particular way or using certain pots and pans, etc.
Depressive would cover claimants who have to be prompted to eat because they don't feel it is worth doing or because they do not think they are worthy of the food, they may also eat only when hungry and so do not eat nutritionally.
To be counted as able to eat you need to do so reliably and on the majority of days, if you cannot achieve this then you should score points. Reliably means;
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
• To a necessary and appropriate standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period.
You need to explain why you have a problem (e.g. depression)?
How it effects you (I don't eat without being prompted)?
What happens if you don't have support (I won't eat for days)?
When are you effected (every day)?
How long are you effected (all day)?
There may be multiple reasons why you have a problem, don't be afraid to mention them all.
In regards to your last question, I don't think you quoting from the DM handbook would be considered as being cocky, it would imply that they cannot pull the wool over your eyes and that you know what you are talking about.
Gary
Gordon answered this question a little while ago which I thought was nicely laid out.
I would think that problems with eating fall into three areas that I'll label; aversion, ritual and depressive.
Aversion would cover illnesses such as anorexia and bulimia where a claimant won't eat to eat food without supervision or having eaten they have to watched to ensure that they don't try and get rid of it.
Ritual would cover conditions such as OCD and possibly ASD where the claimant may only eat the food if it is presented in a particular manner or maybe the food has to be prepared in particular way or using certain pots and pans, etc.
Depressive would cover claimants who have to be prompted to eat because they don't feel it is worth doing or because they do not think they are worthy of the food, they may also eat only when hungry and so do not eat nutritionally.
To be counted as able to eat you need to do so reliably and on the majority of days, if you cannot achieve this then you should score points. Reliably means;
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
• To a necessary and appropriate standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period.
You need to explain why you have a problem (e.g. depression)?
How it effects you (I don't eat without being prompted)?
What happens if you don't have support (I won't eat for days)?
When are you effected (every day)?
How long are you effected (all day)?
There may be multiple reasons why you have a problem, don't be afraid to mention them all.
In regards to your last question, I don't think you quoting from the DM handbook would be considered as being cocky, it would imply that they cannot pull the wool over your eyes and that you know what you are talking about.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 3 years 1 month ago by Gary.
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- craig3474
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3 years 1 month ago #267343 by craig3474
Replied by craig3474 on topic ESA Chewing or swallowing food or drink descriptor
Thank you Gary
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