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Zero points in PIP assessment
- Kras83
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3 years 1 week ago #267939 by Kras83
Zero points in PIP assessment was created by Kras83
Hi, I posted here a couple of weeks ago asking about advice for chasing up my claim. I was eventually able to build up the courage to phone last week and today I received a decision giving me zero points across the board. It's a little unsettling to be honest. The claim for example that I show no signs of anxiety despite it being one of the major limiting factors in my life and that I it has driven me close to suicide repeatedly. They also noted that "I was diagnosed with autism but not until adulthood" as if it makes a difference to the amount it should affect me. The letter also seizes upon the fact that although I am on antidepressants it's only a first line medication and I'm not on the maximum dosage despite my explanation on the form that I had been put at the maximum and had to back off due to side effects (tinnitus). They also seem to see the fact that I don't currently receive any support for my autism as significant despite there being none for adults in this area and me stating repeatedly that I rely heavily on my family.
Sigh...
I tried to look up what to do on the site but I'm in a bit of a stunned state at the moment and can't get the information to stick in my head right now. I know I need to go for a mandatory reconsideration. Do things that have happened since the date of my claim count as evidence as I have had two times I've had to seek help for anxiety making me suicidal, and have had to go up to the maximum dose of my antidepressants despite having had some side effects, or is it like with ESA where anything after you claim is not relevant to the claim?
Sorry, I'm a bit muddled stunned and numb at the moment.
Sigh...
I tried to look up what to do on the site but I'm in a bit of a stunned state at the moment and can't get the information to stick in my head right now. I know I need to go for a mandatory reconsideration. Do things that have happened since the date of my claim count as evidence as I have had two times I've had to seek help for anxiety making me suicidal, and have had to go up to the maximum dose of my antidepressants despite having had some side effects, or is it like with ESA where anything after you claim is not relevant to the claim?
Sorry, I'm a bit muddled stunned and numb at the moment.
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- LL26
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3 years 1 week ago #267948 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Zero points in PIP assessment
Hi Jonathan T,
I understand your sense of frustration, disappointment and despair at receiving such unfair comments.
Yes first stage of appeal is to do MR. If you haven't already done so, phone DWP and ask for a copy of the assessment report - PA4. Yes, it won't be nice to read, but you will need it to perform a proper criticism of the decision.
You are right what different does it make if you have andw diagnosis of something that has probably been with you since birth. Perhaps knowing later in life is worse since if any help was available whilst you were younger you may have had a different insight and coping mechanisms?
DWP have a number of stock excuses. Driving is one.( You drive so you can chop vegetables etc!) Medicine is another one. You take first line pills, so you ain't very ill. (Even though nothing else works.) There are many more unfounded assumptions that DWP make time and time again. At least this means although it might appear personal, it isn't.
You may have only recently been diagnosed but presumably you have had difficulties all your life? Was it a chance diagnosis, or did something happen that led to it? I think you can legitimately explain the background to your diagnosis. Explain the lifelong problems you have had, the reason for the diagnosis etc. This will be the opening few paragraphs of your MR letter.
Then perhaps using bullet points criticise the assessment. No need to criticise everything. Note the main flaws and combine the rest.
Eg.The assessor
• ignored my clear anxiety
• repeatedly failed to note my answers correctly
•failed to show any understanding of mental health conditions, s evidenced by repeated use of cut and paste
In addition, throughout the assessment the assessor was rude and condescending
Then, using the members guides to assist, as required, you can go through each descriptor and say why the 0 pts is wrong and what score you should have received. This can be a sentence or two, but give examples of what goes wrong, why you can't do the activity etc.
I would certainly include recent things that have happened, they indicate the sort if things that go wrong, and show that little things might turn into very confusing and confronting experiences. If you can explain the cause that might help give an insight into your health. Maybe you can get a friend or relative to make a statement explaining your difficulties. Don’t worry about repeating what's said already in the claim form. Also resend doctor's reports and your diagnosis report. You could add a comment saying that you have included all the reports again as they clearly were ignored the first time!
I appreciate that this may all sound a bit daunting. Maybe family can help. Your MR needs to be sent in within a month of the decision notice date. You can ring up for more time.
Remember to put your name and NI number on each page and keep copies of what you send.
Good luck.
I hope this helps.
LL26
I understand your sense of frustration, disappointment and despair at receiving such unfair comments.
Yes first stage of appeal is to do MR. If you haven't already done so, phone DWP and ask for a copy of the assessment report - PA4. Yes, it won't be nice to read, but you will need it to perform a proper criticism of the decision.
You are right what different does it make if you have andw diagnosis of something that has probably been with you since birth. Perhaps knowing later in life is worse since if any help was available whilst you were younger you may have had a different insight and coping mechanisms?
DWP have a number of stock excuses. Driving is one.( You drive so you can chop vegetables etc!) Medicine is another one. You take first line pills, so you ain't very ill. (Even though nothing else works.) There are many more unfounded assumptions that DWP make time and time again. At least this means although it might appear personal, it isn't.
You may have only recently been diagnosed but presumably you have had difficulties all your life? Was it a chance diagnosis, or did something happen that led to it? I think you can legitimately explain the background to your diagnosis. Explain the lifelong problems you have had, the reason for the diagnosis etc. This will be the opening few paragraphs of your MR letter.
Then perhaps using bullet points criticise the assessment. No need to criticise everything. Note the main flaws and combine the rest.
Eg.The assessor
• ignored my clear anxiety
• repeatedly failed to note my answers correctly
•failed to show any understanding of mental health conditions, s evidenced by repeated use of cut and paste
In addition, throughout the assessment the assessor was rude and condescending
Then, using the members guides to assist, as required, you can go through each descriptor and say why the 0 pts is wrong and what score you should have received. This can be a sentence or two, but give examples of what goes wrong, why you can't do the activity etc.
I would certainly include recent things that have happened, they indicate the sort if things that go wrong, and show that little things might turn into very confusing and confronting experiences. If you can explain the cause that might help give an insight into your health. Maybe you can get a friend or relative to make a statement explaining your difficulties. Don’t worry about repeating what's said already in the claim form. Also resend doctor's reports and your diagnosis report. You could add a comment saying that you have included all the reports again as they clearly were ignored the first time!
I appreciate that this may all sound a bit daunting. Maybe family can help. Your MR needs to be sent in within a month of the decision notice date. You can ring up for more time.
Remember to put your name and NI number on each page and keep copies of what you send.
Good luck.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Kras83
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3 years 1 week ago #267951 by Kras83
Replied by Kras83 on topic Zero points in PIP assessment
Thanks for the reply. I'm finding this difficult as I did in fact use the guide here last June to fill in my PIP form, and sent typed detailed answers covering exactly what difficulties I had in each section where I had them, and going into some background in places to explain things.
You are right in that it can be worse to find out these things later in life. One of the criteria for getting a diagnosis of ASD is that it is evident from childhood (with hindsight) as it is a life long developmental condition. I've just checked my copy of my answers to the form and in the any other information section at the end I wrote nearly four pages giving a summary of how I have been affected in my life. To give another example of something they seem to have seized on I said how I tried to go to University after school 6th form and had to withdraw after getting anxious and panicky. I explained that I was able to go back to the school 6th form for another two years as it was familiar, then I reapplied to University at the same time as my younger brother and was able to stay the 2nd time as my brother was there at the same time with some overlap in our courses. I explained that I still had difficulties there and my mental and physical health suffered but I graduated. The letter I received today just seizes on the fact that I went to a mainstream University and lists that as reason why I cannot be all that disabled.
I even explained that being the way I am makes it extremely hard to reach out for help, doing so is sometimes more scary than the idea of just keeping quiet and enduring even though I know I'm probably reaching the end of my ability to do so.
It feels like a lot like I have been selectively quoted.
I'll phone on Monday and ask for a copy of the assessment report and then see about writing a mandatory reconsideration letter.
I want to say thanks for giving me a clear course of action, unfortunately breaking a problem down into manageable chunks and getting organised to tackle them is one of the areas in which I have trouble. It is also why I did quite well at school and university but struggle hard in the 'real world'. In education for the most part you are led by the hand through things so you know step by step what to do. Sadly life seems to just throw things at you and doesn't come with instructions
Thanks
Jonathan
You are right in that it can be worse to find out these things later in life. One of the criteria for getting a diagnosis of ASD is that it is evident from childhood (with hindsight) as it is a life long developmental condition. I've just checked my copy of my answers to the form and in the any other information section at the end I wrote nearly four pages giving a summary of how I have been affected in my life. To give another example of something they seem to have seized on I said how I tried to go to University after school 6th form and had to withdraw after getting anxious and panicky. I explained that I was able to go back to the school 6th form for another two years as it was familiar, then I reapplied to University at the same time as my younger brother and was able to stay the 2nd time as my brother was there at the same time with some overlap in our courses. I explained that I still had difficulties there and my mental and physical health suffered but I graduated. The letter I received today just seizes on the fact that I went to a mainstream University and lists that as reason why I cannot be all that disabled.
I even explained that being the way I am makes it extremely hard to reach out for help, doing so is sometimes more scary than the idea of just keeping quiet and enduring even though I know I'm probably reaching the end of my ability to do so.
It feels like a lot like I have been selectively quoted.
I'll phone on Monday and ask for a copy of the assessment report and then see about writing a mandatory reconsideration letter.
I want to say thanks for giving me a clear course of action, unfortunately breaking a problem down into manageable chunks and getting organised to tackle them is one of the areas in which I have trouble. It is also why I did quite well at school and university but struggle hard in the 'real world'. In education for the most part you are led by the hand through things so you know step by step what to do. Sadly life seems to just throw things at you and doesn't come with instructions

Thanks
Jonathan
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- Gary
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3 years 1 week ago #267953 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic Zero points in PIP assessment
Hi Jonathan T
i do feel for you, unfortunately it does very very often and it should not.
Once you get your assessors report (PA4) you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and you will now be able to argue against them.
I usually use a highlighter to highlight any inaccuracies, once you have gone through the report you then set out why you are applying for a MR and go through each descriptor one at a time why you disagree with the assessor and try and match it with any supporting documents you may have sent in.
Understand that the assessor is offering an opinion when they say 'in my opinion' you can do the PIP activities, tackling these head-on is unlikely to be successful, you need to show that the basis of that opinion is founded on incorrect information, so try and refer to your evidence to undermine what they have said., remember they are just an opinion which is not based on fact.
Also, try and stick to issues that lead to your scoring points, I often hear members referring to the assessors spelling, as an example, whilst it may show a lack of professionalism, raising it as an issue isn't going to help you get an award.
Your primary task is to show that you meet the criteria, there are many reasons you may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation;
Lastly, make sure that you understand the criteria that you are being assessed against you can put the best case forward that is possible but you won't score points if you do not meet the PIP Descriptors.
If you have any further questions then please come back to the forum.
Good luck with your MR
Gary
i do feel for you, unfortunately it does very very often and it should not.
Once you get your assessors report (PA4) you will have a better understanding of how the DWP Decision Maker has come to their conclusions and you will now be able to argue against them.
I usually use a highlighter to highlight any inaccuracies, once you have gone through the report you then set out why you are applying for a MR and go through each descriptor one at a time why you disagree with the assessor and try and match it with any supporting documents you may have sent in.
Understand that the assessor is offering an opinion when they say 'in my opinion' you can do the PIP activities, tackling these head-on is unlikely to be successful, you need to show that the basis of that opinion is founded on incorrect information, so try and refer to your evidence to undermine what they have said., remember they are just an opinion which is not based on fact.
Also, try and stick to issues that lead to your scoring points, I often hear members referring to the assessors spelling, as an example, whilst it may show a lack of professionalism, raising it as an issue isn't going to help you get an award.
Your primary task is to show that you meet the criteria, there are many reasons you may have failed, you need to address each of these but don't get bogged down in criticising the assessment report unless you can clearly show that it is incorrect, it is a lot easier to argue the facts of the situation;
Lastly, make sure that you understand the criteria that you are being assessed against you can put the best case forward that is possible but you won't score points if you do not meet the PIP Descriptors.
If you have any further questions then please come back to the forum.
Good luck with your MR
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- pomaus
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3 years 1 week ago #267954 by pomaus
Replied by pomaus on topic Zero points in PIP assessment
Johnathon, sorry to hear about your experience.
Following on from the advice that you have already been given
I would ask the new decision-maker to remind themselves of the following guide assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governm...sessment-process.pdf
and in particular what it says about mental health and dosage of medication should not be used as indication to severity of illness
"When considering mental health medication HPs should
remember that not all claimants with a mental health condition
will be on medication or receiving therapy. Severity of a mental
28
health condition does not necessarily correspond with the type
or dosage of medication that the claimant is receiving. There
are a number of reasons why a claimant may be unable or
choose not to take mental health medication, for example, but
not limited to:
• Poor compliance due to the nature of mental health condition
• Side effects or difficulty tolerating medication
• Lack of efficacy
• Preference for psychological therapy instead of medication
• Complicating factors e.g. excessive alcohol consumption
Therefore absence of medication does not automatically mean that
the health condition is not severe. However, HPs should consider
the type and context of certain medications, for example use of
depot antipsychotic injections in psychotic disorders.
HPs should also take into account that some medications are used
to treat different conditions, for example some antidepressants are
also licenced to treat anxiety. HPs must also consider the use of
other treatments such as psychological therapies."
Hope this helps.
The only other thing I would reiterate is what others are saying...
Take each descriptor 1 by 1 and give an example of how your condition affects you
So for example on Descriptor 9 9. Engaging with other people face
to face
If you believed you should have scored 4 points for (C) Needs social support to be able to engage with other people
You could say something like, I disagree with the HCP decision to award me no points for this activity. Due to my autism and depression, I struggle to understand what is being communicated to me, especially people who are unknown to me, this makes me extremely anxious and I panic and need to escape the situation. I need the support of a member of my family in order to help me cope with the situation. Without this support, I would ??????
When I have had encounters like these before, I will ruminate about it for days afterwards which worsens my depression and leads me to have intrusive and suicidal thoughts.
I believe therefore I should have been awarded 4 points for this activity for needing social support.....
Hope this helps, and do the same for each and every descriptor that you feel you should be awarded points for and try to give an example of situations that have occurred to you which would put you into that descriptor you are aiming for.
Hope that makes sense and good luck with it all
Following on from the advice that you have already been given
I would ask the new decision-maker to remind themselves of the following guide assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governm...sessment-process.pdf
and in particular what it says about mental health and dosage of medication should not be used as indication to severity of illness
"When considering mental health medication HPs should
remember that not all claimants with a mental health condition
will be on medication or receiving therapy. Severity of a mental
28
health condition does not necessarily correspond with the type
or dosage of medication that the claimant is receiving. There
are a number of reasons why a claimant may be unable or
choose not to take mental health medication, for example, but
not limited to:
• Poor compliance due to the nature of mental health condition
• Side effects or difficulty tolerating medication
• Lack of efficacy
• Preference for psychological therapy instead of medication
• Complicating factors e.g. excessive alcohol consumption
Therefore absence of medication does not automatically mean that
the health condition is not severe. However, HPs should consider
the type and context of certain medications, for example use of
depot antipsychotic injections in psychotic disorders.
HPs should also take into account that some medications are used
to treat different conditions, for example some antidepressants are
also licenced to treat anxiety. HPs must also consider the use of
other treatments such as psychological therapies."
Hope this helps.
The only other thing I would reiterate is what others are saying...
Take each descriptor 1 by 1 and give an example of how your condition affects you
So for example on Descriptor 9 9. Engaging with other people face
to face
If you believed you should have scored 4 points for (C) Needs social support to be able to engage with other people
You could say something like, I disagree with the HCP decision to award me no points for this activity. Due to my autism and depression, I struggle to understand what is being communicated to me, especially people who are unknown to me, this makes me extremely anxious and I panic and need to escape the situation. I need the support of a member of my family in order to help me cope with the situation. Without this support, I would ??????
When I have had encounters like these before, I will ruminate about it for days afterwards which worsens my depression and leads me to have intrusive and suicidal thoughts.
I believe therefore I should have been awarded 4 points for this activity for needing social support.....
Hope this helps, and do the same for each and every descriptor that you feel you should be awarded points for and try to give an example of situations that have occurred to you which would put you into that descriptor you are aiming for.
Hope that makes sense and good luck with it all
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- phrank
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3 years 1 week ago #267961 by phrank
Replied by phrank on topic Zero points in PIP assessment
Hi Jonathan T,
Please don't despair too much about the zero points outcome of your initial assessment. The reason I say this is that this is exactly what happened to me four years ago.
I, too, was feeling like you and almost didn't bother appealing as it was getting to me in such a really bad way.
I followed all the advice on here and also followed the excellent members guides and took the assessors report apart.
I went through each discriptor individually and corrected the many mistruths and misreporting(s) contained within the report.
I also wrote what I believed should have been the correct decision and points given in order to reinstate my original award.
I won.
It wasn't easy, I admit, but I got there with a hell of a lot of support from the moderators on here and fellow members, too.
I wish you the very best of luck,
Kind regards,
Phrank.
Please don't despair too much about the zero points outcome of your initial assessment. The reason I say this is that this is exactly what happened to me four years ago.
I, too, was feeling like you and almost didn't bother appealing as it was getting to me in such a really bad way.
I followed all the advice on here and also followed the excellent members guides and took the assessors report apart.
I went through each discriptor individually and corrected the many mistruths and misreporting(s) contained within the report.
I also wrote what I believed should have been the correct decision and points given in order to reinstate my original award.
I won.
It wasn't easy, I admit, but I got there with a hell of a lot of support from the moderators on here and fellow members, too.
I wish you the very best of luck,
Kind regards,
Phrank.
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