Zero points in PIP assessment

Johnathan

I am sure others with experience of providing advocacy services and representing people at tribunals will be able to advise better than I.

The only thing I would say is...

While of course it is important to get a bit of background information in your claim for causes of mental health if there are any due to trauma or as secondary causes due to other underlying conditions ( of course there are many many people who suffer from mental health which has no underlying cause and is just a disability on itself), we must be careful however not to lose sight of what is most important when it comes to claiming PIP or ESA and that is to get the information across on how a disability effects the ability to perform a task.

I think it is terrible that someone with mental health and I am guilty of this myself as someone who has been through severe trauma, and we end up feeling that we have to give justification for our illness. (. It just goes to show how rotten the system is when vulnerable people are reduced to this)
We then get so involved in defending ourselves and justifying the disease that we do not give enough attention to the descriptors themselves and how the illness effects our ability to perform the task. This is after all the most important part of a claim because deep down the DWP and the Law for that matter are not interested in the disability itself ( Its not the label) that makes you eligible for the support but your ability to carry out each and every task as set out in the descriptors.

Of course you absolutely must point out where you feel the DM was wrong and refer to parts in your claim or further evidence you have submitted which backs up your claim, give further information along the lines were I said giving details on how your ability is to carry out the task and how your autism and mental health is affected when you perform the task and what help you get or don't get and also what would happen if you do not get it.
Then state what descriptor and points you feel should have been awarded on that basis.

Good luck Johnathon

Thanks for the feedback. My plan is to now go through each of the activities I think I should get points on, say exactly what descriptor I think I meet and then explain why. I felt the need to attack the assumptions they had made as when I filled in the form I used the guides here to make sure I was covering the activities and demonstrating that I met certain descriptors, but the response seems to have used the details of my life to argue that in their opinion this cannot be the case. I thought I was quite targetted when I filled in the form but this time guess I'll have to be even more blatant in saying "I meet this descriptor for this activity". Is it worth doing it almost like their assessment report, stating what I believe I should get and then setting out my justification?

......I, too believe that the rediculous 'zero points strategy' employed by some assessors, without them even realising it, leaves them wide open to intense scrutiny by the claimant.

It can definitely work in your favour.

I mean, why would anyone even apply for PIP in the first place if there was nothing particularly wrong with them?

Use this as a positive tool and trip the assessor up is my advice. In these instances they are actually cheating the system but, of course, they are immune.

Regards,

Phrank.

Apologies for another wall of text, I have written out the part covering the specific activities.

Daily Living Activities

1. Preparing Food – The Assessor chose a. Can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided.

I believe I qualify for e. Needs supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal.

The reasons for this are:

• I struggle with getting organised to carry out tasks a lot of the time, rather than a sequence of steps to follow I see it as one daunting thing that I struggle to break down into steps.
• Due to depression I can struggle with being motivated to actually prepare and cook a meal.
• I often need someone to remind me to check that food is not burning as I get easily distracted or lose track of time.
• I need assistance with preparing certain things due to a strong dislike of the feeling of handling them, such as raw meat.
• I get extremely anxious about making sure I produce something I will actually be able to eat as I struggle to tolerate some food textures.
• I have always lived with my parents and rely on my mother for most cooked meals. I attempt to help with simple things like chopping ingredients but can’t cook the meal on my own.
• If I need to get something for myself I rely on ready meals or make a sandwich.

2. Taking nutrition – The Assessor chose a. Can take nutrition unaided.

I believe I qualify for d. Needs prompting to be able to take nutrition.

The reasons for this are:

• I get very absorbed in what I am doing and often need to be called to stop what I am doing and go and get some lunch.
• At times when anxiety or depression is particularly bad I completely lose my appetite.
• At other times I comfort eat and choose things that I find enjoyable but are not healthy such as sweets and crisps. I find the feeling of chewing something to be comforting and will often chew the drawstring on my hoodie. It is not about being hungry.

3. Managing therapy or monitoring a health condition – The Assessor chose a. can manage medication or therapy or monitor a health condition unaided.

I somewhat agree with the decision here; my struggles with managing my mental health are mostly about difficulty communicating that I am having a problem or that I need help. Once I have established a routine around medication it becomes automatic.

4. Washing and bathing – The Assessor chose a. Can wash and bathe unaided, most of the time this is true so I agree.

5. Managing toilet needs or incontinence – The Assessor chose a. Can manage toilet needs of incontinence unaided. I agree with this.

6. Dressing and undressing – The Assessor chose a. Can dress and undress unaided.

I believe I qualify for c. (ii) Needs prompting or assistance to be able to select appropriate clothing.

The reasons for this are:

• I lose track of how long I have been wearing the same clothes and fail to notice when they are in need of cleaning. Without prompting from my mother I put the same clothes on every day.
• In colder weather I am reluctant to wear a warm coat when going outside as I overheat easily and find the sensation of being hot extremely uncomfortable and smothering.

7. Communicating verbally – The Assessor chose a. Can express and understand verbal information unaided.
I believe I qualify for c. Needs communication support to be able to express or understand complex verbal information.
The reasons for this are:
• I often need extra time to process what has been said to me. If not given this time I unthinkingly cover for it to try to buy myself more time without appearing stupid. I went through most of my life not know I was autistic and so this behaviour is something deeply ingrained as a way of hiding my difficulty. It became natural for me to try and bluff that I am keeping up to try and avoid negative reactions.
• I have a poor working memory for things that have been said to me, especially when already stressed and often have to ask people to repeat information.
• I find speaking to people outside of those that know me very well to be something that generates a lot of anxiety. Overthinking about how anxious I am and trying to come up with responses in advance often means that my attention is even further divided. It is common that I will only fully understand some time after an encounter and realise that my responses were inappropriate or had communicated something that was not intended.
• For simple encounters I rely on predicting where things are going and using standard things to say in that situation. This works well for things such as brief encounters when paying for goods in a shop but breaks down when there are problems.
• Due to anxiety I struggle to initiate contact with someone I don’t know tend to wait silently for that person to notice me and help.
• If it is known ahead of time that I am going to have to talk to someone, such as before going to a doctors appointment or for example the telephone assessment for PIP my family will attempt to help me prepare by reminding me of important points to cover and helping me prepare and if necessary rehearse. This doesn’t always work though as a lot of the time I get very anxious and default to “people pleasing” behaviour where I am just trying get out of the encounter as soon as possible without making a fool of myself. An example of this is that under those conditions if someone asked me something I would reply quickly without thinking it through properly. It would not occur to me until afterwards that I had missed out a lot of important detail and context. In these situations it might be technically true that I have communicated, but it is not what I intended beforehand to communicate.
• Due to anxiety I can often forget entirely things that I should say or ask.
• Difficulty communicating verbally is the thing that makes it so difficult to obtain help for mental health problems like depression and anxiety. I find the idea of opening up and explaining what is wrong to be both difficult and intimidating to the point that unless someone else notices and intervenes I just try to carry on.
• I am easily distracted by background noise as I don’t filter out background sounds but rather notice and process everything that I hear. If someone else is talking nearby it can get confusing as I can’t help but notice what is being said and can get it mixed up with things that are being said to me.

8. Reading and understanding signs, symbols and words – The Assessor chose a. Can read and understand complex written information either unaided or using spectacles or contact lenses.

I agree with this, communicating in writing is my preferred means of communication and the best way in which I can make sure I communicate exactly what I both need and mean to.

9. Engaging with others face to face – the assessor chose a. Can engage with other people unaided
I believe I qualify for c. Needs social support to be able to engage with other people.
The reasons for this are:
• I find dealing with other people, especially those I am not extremely familiar with to be very draining. For an autistic person noticing and interpreting things like body language and expression aren’t something that happens in the background but something that I actively need to concentrate on. I find this makes me very anxious.
• As a face to face encounter goes on I find that I gradually lose my ability to pay attention to all the different sources of information and try to cut back on the overload by, for example, looking at the floor rather than at the other person to cut out all of the visual information relevant to the encounter. As time goes by I can need the other person to prompt me to respond.
• Unless actively encouraged I rarely engage with people beyond very brief simple interactions such as paying for things in a shop. Even then if available I will use a self service option.
• Even in the context of things I enjoy doing I need to be encouraged and supported to do things that involve dealing with other people face to face. The times that I have had the courage to attempt to socialise over something like a tabletop game correlate strongly with the times I have been in receipt of cognitive behavioural therapy. Thinking back I can remember discussing that I wished I could do these things and being given techniques to try to manage anxiety and advice on how to handle situations.
• I have struggled with engaging face to face all of my life. I would spend break times at school on my own most of the time and spent the time I was not required to be in lectures at university on my own.
• When given group tasks at university I coped by completing the work on my own in advance of group sessions where possible and simply giving the work over to the group.
• Even having family visit at home is draining, and I am reliant on my parents or brother to carry a conversation.
• I am very sensitive to the tone of voice used when people speak. Someone that sounds angry or frustrated is very intimidating to me and I feel a strong need to retreat away from other people when they are angry.
• It can be difficult for other people to tell from my tone of voice how I am feeling as I simply speak in a monotone when distressed or upset. It needs someone familiar with me to notice the signs that all is not well and be able to step in and support me when I am struggling.

10. Making Budgeting decisions – The Assessor chose a. Can manage complex budgeting decisions unaided.

I believe I qualify for b. Needs prompting or assistance to be able to make complex budgeting decisions.

The reasons for this are:
• I do not have a problem with the mathematics involved in managing money, it is being organised that I struggle with.
• I am impulsive and struggle to stick to plans.
• I can easily lose track of what has happened financially, I don’t have a problem for example purchasing something online for the family when needed, but then struggle to remember what I am still owed for when it comes to work out things at the end of the month. I find it intimidating to go through and figure it all out and need prompting to do so, sometimes several times before it gets done.

Mobility Activities
11. Planning and following journeys – The Assessor chose a. Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided.

I believe I qualify for d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid.

The reasons for this are:

• I get extremely anxious about going to unfamiliar locations.
• All my life I have need someone to accompany me before going somewhere new.
• At times when I have needed to go to a new location but that it would be embarrassing to not appear to be independent, I have coped by going on a practice run with my family in advance so that they could be with me to help my become familiar with the location in advance of the time I actually needed to go there. I have needed to do this all of my life.
• I am reliant on my father to drive me to places such as appointments.
• I can take a bus into the local town on my own if I really need to as I am familiar with the route and area as I have been here all my life. I cannot do a journey that requires catching more than one bus though as I get extremely anxious if one is late and begin to panic about getting stranded.

12. Moving around – The Assessor chose a. Can stand and then move for more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. I agree with this as I have no physical mobility issues.