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PIP review (new style form) - criteria with no change but initial wrong scores
- calon-lan
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2 years 4 months ago #273684 by calon-lan
PIP review (new style form) - criteria with no change but initial wrong scores was created by calon-lan
Hiya, hoping someone can help me. I am helping my sister who has uncontrolled epilepsy as well as depression and anxiety. Her PIP award period is nearly over, and she has been sent the new review form to complete.
It's my first time on the forum, so I'm not too sure how much background info you need, but I've added some at the end.
Question
The form focuses on changes, and we have a couple of those. But how do we deal with criteria where her needs haven't really changed but she they got it wrong initially and at subsequent attempts to get it re-looked at. I've read somewhere that we could try saying just that "My needs haven’t changed but I believe I should have received a score/higher score at my last assessment", and then give full description and new supporting evidence.
While this seems logical, I am a bit nervous that this might backfire because we might annoy the assessors as it applies to multiple criteria - it might look like we are being hugely critical.
The reasons for the incorrect points vary, but includes 1/ they just misunderstood or relied on pure observation which is not right for a varying condition; 2/ we may have not explained it well or didn’t have enough evidence, and 3/ the guidance to assessors has now been changed or clarified to recognise needs like hers.
Is there a good/best way of doing this? Ideally we would love a better outcome without the need for a full face to face reassessment so have wondered about just focusing on keeping the existing points plus a couple where we feel the evidence will get us the extra couple of points. Or will the fact that there are any changes and challenges mean a full reassessment is inevitable? In that case, we would be tempted to throw everything in for as many criteria as we can on the basis that if we are having to go through the pain we might as well try and get the higher award.
Any help, suggestions or examples of having already done this would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Background
She was initially assessed in 2018 and received a reply in May 2019. Although she was awarded the full points for mobility, she had nothing for daily living needs. She immediately asked them to look at it again but same outcome.
With my help she asked it to be look at again in 2020 - we challenged most areas and provided more detailed explanation but no further evidence. She was awarded 6 points - 2 each for Preparing and cooking food, Washing and bathing, and Managing toilet needs. But again nothing for the other areas, despite a lot of the comments being really odd.
We didn’t try again or ask for mandatory reconsideration. That was probably a mistake but she was too stressed.
It's my first time on the forum, so I'm not too sure how much background info you need, but I've added some at the end.
Question
The form focuses on changes, and we have a couple of those. But how do we deal with criteria where her needs haven't really changed but she they got it wrong initially and at subsequent attempts to get it re-looked at. I've read somewhere that we could try saying just that "My needs haven’t changed but I believe I should have received a score/higher score at my last assessment", and then give full description and new supporting evidence.
While this seems logical, I am a bit nervous that this might backfire because we might annoy the assessors as it applies to multiple criteria - it might look like we are being hugely critical.
The reasons for the incorrect points vary, but includes 1/ they just misunderstood or relied on pure observation which is not right for a varying condition; 2/ we may have not explained it well or didn’t have enough evidence, and 3/ the guidance to assessors has now been changed or clarified to recognise needs like hers.
Is there a good/best way of doing this? Ideally we would love a better outcome without the need for a full face to face reassessment so have wondered about just focusing on keeping the existing points plus a couple where we feel the evidence will get us the extra couple of points. Or will the fact that there are any changes and challenges mean a full reassessment is inevitable? In that case, we would be tempted to throw everything in for as many criteria as we can on the basis that if we are having to go through the pain we might as well try and get the higher award.
Any help, suggestions or examples of having already done this would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Background
She was initially assessed in 2018 and received a reply in May 2019. Although she was awarded the full points for mobility, she had nothing for daily living needs. She immediately asked them to look at it again but same outcome.
With my help she asked it to be look at again in 2020 - we challenged most areas and provided more detailed explanation but no further evidence. She was awarded 6 points - 2 each for Preparing and cooking food, Washing and bathing, and Managing toilet needs. But again nothing for the other areas, despite a lot of the comments being really odd.
We didn’t try again or ask for mandatory reconsideration. That was probably a mistake but she was too stressed.
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- BIS
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2 years 4 months ago #273695 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic PIP review (new style form) - criteria with no change but initial wrong scores
Hi Calon-Ian
Welcome to the forum
I can't tell you what to write because you have to do what feels right for you and your sister, but you don't have to worry about saying that she should have scored higher for some areas previously. Lots of people do this, and you can add a line that you did not challenge the last report because of her health and the stress this would have caused. This won't upset the person reading it - they are not the person who assessed your sister last time. Just don't be insulting. Use words like "they missed ....", "they misunderstood...", "they failed to document ..." and then add in your evidence and where you think she hits the criteria.
You can of course, not mention it at all - and just hope that you get a couple of extra points - but that comes with a risk. Each time a claimant is reviewed, it is not a given that their award will stay the same - even when nothing has changed. This is because it will be a different assessor with possibly a different 'opinion'. Now that could work in a claimant's favour or it can work against - so in my view, it is better to go after as many points that you believe she should get and give them a full picture of her needs.
Do have a look at the guide on filling out review forms. It has very good advice about what you should say - even if nothing has changed. Guide to PiP claims and reviews benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/pip. You can find the information from page 128
When it comes to an assessment - the DWP wants most claimants to have a telephone, video or face-to-face assessment. (Most are telephone assessments at the moment). You can put in a request for a paper-based assessment - but they may not agree. If you do not want to request a paper-based assessment - you need to be confident that you have submitted any relevant supporting information and that everything is explained as clearly as possible.
Hope this helps. If you have any further questions - don't hesitate to come back and ask
BIS
Welcome to the forum
I can't tell you what to write because you have to do what feels right for you and your sister, but you don't have to worry about saying that she should have scored higher for some areas previously. Lots of people do this, and you can add a line that you did not challenge the last report because of her health and the stress this would have caused. This won't upset the person reading it - they are not the person who assessed your sister last time. Just don't be insulting. Use words like "they missed ....", "they misunderstood...", "they failed to document ..." and then add in your evidence and where you think she hits the criteria.
You can of course, not mention it at all - and just hope that you get a couple of extra points - but that comes with a risk. Each time a claimant is reviewed, it is not a given that their award will stay the same - even when nothing has changed. This is because it will be a different assessor with possibly a different 'opinion'. Now that could work in a claimant's favour or it can work against - so in my view, it is better to go after as many points that you believe she should get and give them a full picture of her needs.
Do have a look at the guide on filling out review forms. It has very good advice about what you should say - even if nothing has changed. Guide to PiP claims and reviews benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/pip. You can find the information from page 128
When it comes to an assessment - the DWP wants most claimants to have a telephone, video or face-to-face assessment. (Most are telephone assessments at the moment). You can put in a request for a paper-based assessment - but they may not agree. If you do not want to request a paper-based assessment - you need to be confident that you have submitted any relevant supporting information and that everything is explained as clearly as possible.
Hope this helps. If you have any further questions - don't hesitate to come back and ask
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- denby
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2 years 3 months ago #273730 by denby
Replied by denby on topic PIP review (new style form) - criteria with no change but initial wrong scores
Hi calon-Ian, so sorry they bullied your sister into feeling too stressed to fight for her rights. [It's what they do, and in most of our opinions no accident]. However now you have found this absolutely life-and-quality-of-life-saving site, there are very many of us here who have you and your sisters' backs.
Take me as representing lots - I started two-finger typing a reply because my husband's epilepsy used to be uncontrolled. So I'm close to how it is to lose your memory of a day or so of what you did, of special occasions, of places you went before, and so on. And what it's like to look "OK" but be in pain from a bitten tongue and unable to eat normal food for days. Even now he cannot drink his black coffee hot because the scars on his tongue are very sensitive. Assessors neither see, nor most of them care about, what it is like to wet or soil yourself as well as wake up with a blinding pounding headache. So well done to you for taking up the fight, and this time take no prisoners of DWP and their profit-oriented contractors!!!
May I pass on a wonderful idea from one of our trojan Mods - keep a journal just for your sister and you, or encourage her to if she can, of what she CAN do and DOES achieve, this is to balance for yourselves telling the real whole truth to DWP which tends to be depressing.
Very very best wishes,
Denby
Take me as representing lots - I started two-finger typing a reply because my husband's epilepsy used to be uncontrolled. So I'm close to how it is to lose your memory of a day or so of what you did, of special occasions, of places you went before, and so on. And what it's like to look "OK" but be in pain from a bitten tongue and unable to eat normal food for days. Even now he cannot drink his black coffee hot because the scars on his tongue are very sensitive. Assessors neither see, nor most of them care about, what it is like to wet or soil yourself as well as wake up with a blinding pounding headache. So well done to you for taking up the fight, and this time take no prisoners of DWP and their profit-oriented contractors!!!
May I pass on a wonderful idea from one of our trojan Mods - keep a journal just for your sister and you, or encourage her to if she can, of what she CAN do and DOES achieve, this is to balance for yourselves telling the real whole truth to DWP which tends to be depressing.
Very very best wishes,
Denby
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