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How do I take my PIPs claim successfully to the Upper Tier Tribunal?
- Diane
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2 years 1 day ago #276385 by Diane
How do I take my PIPs claim successfully to the Upper Tier Tribunal? was created by Diane
It is nearly 2 years since I initially started this current PIPs claim for myself (having had a few previous ones declined or run out of time). I am also using CAB for help with these claims.
My current claim was ininitally rejected, went to mandatory reconsideration, ended up with online video assessment, claim then rejected, went to actual tribunal appeal. This appeal upheld the no award decision, however, they did actually award me a couple of extra points in the prep of food question.
I have long maintained that all my PIPs claims have not fully taken into account my mental health diagnosis of Autusm, ADHD, SAD, low energy and moods, and also my physical issues, osteoarthritis - progressive.
Due to the above mentioned especially mental health conditions (also I am carer for my 2 young adults with similar issues) I really struggle to put pen to paper to put the right information into forms.
To my mind, my current PIPs form should have begun ringing alarm bells sooner, parts badly hand written, parts typed out, other parts cut and pasted in like a TV ransome note. After having read some of the vast information held in this website I am now convinced that I am entitled to PIPs in my own right.
I currently have a CAB contact who told me to only focus on a few of the areas (whereas before I had put something down for all areas as adviced by the previous CAB PIPs contact. To some degree I am affected on a daily, seasonal basis in all areas). Including issues arising from advocating for my 2 young adults also greatly impacts me daily.
All my conditions previously mentioned plus hearing issues (ringing in the ears which also affects balance), pre-diabetic and high cholesterol as well as eye sight changes are continually getting worse each day. Not sure how to include / get these actually considered in the PIPs claim as well as all the other issues.
Yes, all my conditions and carers responsibilities always affect me differently each day and night. My mental health conditions officially diagnosed after my 40s / 50s.
I have also been told by Social Services Adult assessment that I have needs but will not be paid for by council. Also been told that Carers don't or can't have needs themselves. Unsure as to who actually told me that, possibly on one of my many phone calls to CAB / UC / Health Assessment centres.
I am now overwhelmed by the amount of information available to go through so I can co-write a letter with CAB and get an Upper Tribunal Hearing Appeal successfully applied, paid and backdated from nearly 2 years ago.
Sorry for the long wordy post. Not sure how this works here.
Hoping for some simple easy to understand bullet point style action points for me to follow through on.
Thanks
Wholesome Diane
My current claim was ininitally rejected, went to mandatory reconsideration, ended up with online video assessment, claim then rejected, went to actual tribunal appeal. This appeal upheld the no award decision, however, they did actually award me a couple of extra points in the prep of food question.
I have long maintained that all my PIPs claims have not fully taken into account my mental health diagnosis of Autusm, ADHD, SAD, low energy and moods, and also my physical issues, osteoarthritis - progressive.
Due to the above mentioned especially mental health conditions (also I am carer for my 2 young adults with similar issues) I really struggle to put pen to paper to put the right information into forms.
To my mind, my current PIPs form should have begun ringing alarm bells sooner, parts badly hand written, parts typed out, other parts cut and pasted in like a TV ransome note. After having read some of the vast information held in this website I am now convinced that I am entitled to PIPs in my own right.
I currently have a CAB contact who told me to only focus on a few of the areas (whereas before I had put something down for all areas as adviced by the previous CAB PIPs contact. To some degree I am affected on a daily, seasonal basis in all areas). Including issues arising from advocating for my 2 young adults also greatly impacts me daily.
All my conditions previously mentioned plus hearing issues (ringing in the ears which also affects balance), pre-diabetic and high cholesterol as well as eye sight changes are continually getting worse each day. Not sure how to include / get these actually considered in the PIPs claim as well as all the other issues.
Yes, all my conditions and carers responsibilities always affect me differently each day and night. My mental health conditions officially diagnosed after my 40s / 50s.
I have also been told by Social Services Adult assessment that I have needs but will not be paid for by council. Also been told that Carers don't or can't have needs themselves. Unsure as to who actually told me that, possibly on one of my many phone calls to CAB / UC / Health Assessment centres.
I am now overwhelmed by the amount of information available to go through so I can co-write a letter with CAB and get an Upper Tribunal Hearing Appeal successfully applied, paid and backdated from nearly 2 years ago.
Sorry for the long wordy post. Not sure how this works here.
Hoping for some simple easy to understand bullet point style action points for me to follow through on.
Thanks
Wholesome Diane
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- LL26
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2 years 1 day ago #276397 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic How do I take my PIPs claim successfully to the Upper Tier Tribunal?
Hi Diane,
Appeal from First tier Tribunal can only be made by identifying a material error of law.
After the FTT hearing you have one month to ask for the written Statement of reasons, the fully written out explanation of the decision. If the month has expired you can put in a late request, but you would need to argue good reason for being late. The ultimate time is 13 months late, but the later you are the more compelling the good reason will need to be.
You have a further month to put in the appeal based on an error of law. You first need to write in to the tribunal. Head your letter- Request to set aside First tier Tribunal Decision and/or Request to appeal to Upper Tribunal.
There is a 2 stage process. Once the request is submitted it will be considered by the District Judge, if he agrees there us an error if law he can do 1 if the following:
1.uphold decision ie no change- no error if law (or not a material one)
2. Agree is error of law and sets decision aside
3. If he isn't sure, or perhaps there is an important issue that needs to be determined by the UT he can agree the appeal gets forwarded to UT, and will set the decision aside.
UT can make any decision that DWP and consequently FTT can make. Sometimes the UT will remake a decision, but if there us insufficient information (which may have been the error of law made by FTT) a rehearsing will be ordered.
If the District Judge sets aside similarly a new hearing takes place, like restarting a game of football - the previous score is wiped clean, and you start again.
What us an error of law?
Can include
Failing to apply the correct law or procedure.
For PIP regulations 4 and 7 are often incorrect. (4 'reliability criteria and 'majority of days' issues.)
Consider whether the WSOR actually explains the tests in each descriptor and the wording used is the same as per the law.
Look at the evidence - does the FTT rely on what was actually said or appears in eg medical evidence?
Did the FTT allow you to give evidence, or your friend, were you cut short?
Did you get a fair trial, complying with the Tribunal Rules, and in particular the 'overriding objective' of fairness under Rules?
However bad the error of law, it has to be material. This means that it has to make a difference. Obviously if you are arguing prejudice against you, this could affect all of the descriptors. However, if the error if law only affects one descriptor and if correctly decided only gives you an extra 2 points, and you still don't get to aminimum of 8 points, you can't gain PIP and the error will not be material!
There may be more than one error if law. As long as you can show at least one arguable material error if law you should achieve a set aside or referral to UT.
Be aware that UT appeals take a long time, but benefit will be backdated to the original DWP decision date or claim date, as appropriate, if the appeal succeeds.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Appeal from First tier Tribunal can only be made by identifying a material error of law.
After the FTT hearing you have one month to ask for the written Statement of reasons, the fully written out explanation of the decision. If the month has expired you can put in a late request, but you would need to argue good reason for being late. The ultimate time is 13 months late, but the later you are the more compelling the good reason will need to be.
You have a further month to put in the appeal based on an error of law. You first need to write in to the tribunal. Head your letter- Request to set aside First tier Tribunal Decision and/or Request to appeal to Upper Tribunal.
There is a 2 stage process. Once the request is submitted it will be considered by the District Judge, if he agrees there us an error if law he can do 1 if the following:
1.uphold decision ie no change- no error if law (or not a material one)
2. Agree is error of law and sets decision aside
3. If he isn't sure, or perhaps there is an important issue that needs to be determined by the UT he can agree the appeal gets forwarded to UT, and will set the decision aside.
UT can make any decision that DWP and consequently FTT can make. Sometimes the UT will remake a decision, but if there us insufficient information (which may have been the error of law made by FTT) a rehearsing will be ordered.
If the District Judge sets aside similarly a new hearing takes place, like restarting a game of football - the previous score is wiped clean, and you start again.
What us an error of law?
Can include
Failing to apply the correct law or procedure.
For PIP regulations 4 and 7 are often incorrect. (4 'reliability criteria and 'majority of days' issues.)
Consider whether the WSOR actually explains the tests in each descriptor and the wording used is the same as per the law.
Look at the evidence - does the FTT rely on what was actually said or appears in eg medical evidence?
Did the FTT allow you to give evidence, or your friend, were you cut short?
Did you get a fair trial, complying with the Tribunal Rules, and in particular the 'overriding objective' of fairness under Rules?
However bad the error of law, it has to be material. This means that it has to make a difference. Obviously if you are arguing prejudice against you, this could affect all of the descriptors. However, if the error if law only affects one descriptor and if correctly decided only gives you an extra 2 points, and you still don't get to aminimum of 8 points, you can't gain PIP and the error will not be material!
There may be more than one error if law. As long as you can show at least one arguable material error if law you should achieve a set aside or referral to UT.
Be aware that UT appeals take a long time, but benefit will be backdated to the original DWP decision date or claim date, as appropriate, if the appeal succeeds.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- Diane
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1 year 11 months ago #276465 by Diane
Replied by Diane on topic How do I take my PIPs claim successfully to the Upper Tier Tribunal?
Thanks. Think I will need to speak to my CAB contact and see what, if anything he has found in the papers I sent him, and the audio.
Quick question, hopefully, do the CAB advisors know and use this website and it's resources?
I ask as I am feeling extremely overwhelmed by all the information regarding this PIPs along with all the other financial and environmental issues I am currently experiencing.
Quick question, hopefully, do the CAB advisors know and use this website and it's resources?
I ask as I am feeling extremely overwhelmed by all the information regarding this PIPs along with all the other financial and environmental issues I am currently experiencing.
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- BIS
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1 year 11 months ago #276477 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic How do I take my PIPs claim successfully to the Upper Tier Tribunal?
Hi Diane
Some CAB advisors do use our website and resources, but not all.
Your previous post mentioned whether you could be a carer and have needs yourself. You can, but we have had members whose carer's allowance was removed when they were awarded PIP because it was deemed they could not fulfil their caring duties (35hrs) a week if they were ill.
Now I don't know whether you even receive carer's allowance (you could only receive it for one adult), but as they are aware you are caring for two adults, I can see why it might be interpreted that your own needs are not that serious. Please don't think I'm suggesting that they aren't - I am only saying how it may have been viewed from what you have written in the past. So if you get the chance to get your case reviewed by the Upper Tribunal or whether you try to apply for PIP again, you need to make sure that the emphasis is on you and how you manage your own care and mobility and explain that you need additional help for yourself (even if you don't currently get it). You run the risk of getting turned down again if the emphasis is on your needs as a carer - because that is not part of the PIP criteria.
BIS
Some CAB advisors do use our website and resources, but not all.
Your previous post mentioned whether you could be a carer and have needs yourself. You can, but we have had members whose carer's allowance was removed when they were awarded PIP because it was deemed they could not fulfil their caring duties (35hrs) a week if they were ill.
Now I don't know whether you even receive carer's allowance (you could only receive it for one adult), but as they are aware you are caring for two adults, I can see why it might be interpreted that your own needs are not that serious. Please don't think I'm suggesting that they aren't - I am only saying how it may have been viewed from what you have written in the past. So if you get the chance to get your case reviewed by the Upper Tribunal or whether you try to apply for PIP again, you need to make sure that the emphasis is on you and how you manage your own care and mobility and explain that you need additional help for yourself (even if you don't currently get it). You run the risk of getting turned down again if the emphasis is on your needs as a carer - because that is not part of the PIP criteria.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
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