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I am currently filling in my reassement and I am confused about wheelchairs.
- Aesculap
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1 year 10 months ago #277863 by Aesculap
I am currently filling in my reassement and I am confused about wheelchairs. was created by Aesculap
I have a few questions regards to a PIP review I am currently undertaking. Just a little background information, I am an above-knee amputee with severe arthritis in my lumbar sacral lilac joints, elbows, and shoulders. I also have a haematological cancer which is incurable and will leave me on chemotherapy for life. My original award from 2017 gave me full mobility and standard care for five years, extended due to covid. My health has deteriorated as a consequence of age (64)and cancer diagnosis treatment and this has impacted the way I move around so instead of crutches and/or artificial leg with walking sticks I now use a wheelchair in the house and a mobility scooter when outside. My wheelchair is my main means of locomotion around the house, assisted by my wife.
1. Regarding The moving around section, I assume that this relates to both indoors and outdoors, can someone clarify? Or does it not matter whether it's indoors or outdoors, the fact that you use a wheelchair or mobility scooter matters?
2. If I have it right I can tell the DWP I use a wheelchair and the reasons I use it but I cannot say that it's an aid to mobility, because I am not walking,/standing which seems a little silly. See the quote below from the benefits and work PIP advice document. “A wheelchair does not count as an aid or appliance here – it is in a category of its own and there’s more on this below under Question 14c and the heading, 'Wheelchairs'.”
3. Lastly another quote from the same document, "Using a wheelchair does not count as standing and moving, so any distance you can only cover using a wheelchair should be discounted. For more on this, see ‘Wheelchairs’ below." Does discounted mean that if I can travel 100m but 90 of those metres is a wheelchair/mobility scooter, then I have only walked 10m the 90 are discounted?
1. Regarding The moving around section, I assume that this relates to both indoors and outdoors, can someone clarify? Or does it not matter whether it's indoors or outdoors, the fact that you use a wheelchair or mobility scooter matters?
2. If I have it right I can tell the DWP I use a wheelchair and the reasons I use it but I cannot say that it's an aid to mobility, because I am not walking,/standing which seems a little silly. See the quote below from the benefits and work PIP advice document. “A wheelchair does not count as an aid or appliance here – it is in a category of its own and there’s more on this below under Question 14c and the heading, 'Wheelchairs'.”
3. Lastly another quote from the same document, "Using a wheelchair does not count as standing and moving, so any distance you can only cover using a wheelchair should be discounted. For more on this, see ‘Wheelchairs’ below." Does discounted mean that if I can travel 100m but 90 of those metres is a wheelchair/mobility scooter, then I have only walked 10m the 90 are discounted?
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- LL26
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1 year 10 months ago #277931 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic I am currently filling in my reassement and I am confused about wheelchairs.
Hi Aesculap,
Mobility for PIP is about walking outdoors.
Think about how you walk, or alternatively why you use the wheelchair. (I know this may be very obvious to you, but DWP don't know you so you need to convince them!)
To gain enhanced mobility under descriptor 2 you need to show either 2e or 2f applies.
2e.Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. 12 points
2f.Cannot, either aided or unaided - (i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre. 12 points
There are 4 criteria that need to be fulfilled. If you fail even just one then you should get points at the level appropriate yo your disability. The criteria are
•safety - is there a risk if substantial harm to you or another - for walking this s most likely to be from falls, but could also include high blood pressure etc
•repetition - needs to be repeated across the whole day as many times as reasonably required. If you consider you might want to go to the bank, go out and post a letter, visit your sister, get a pint a of milk....these are all possible multiple journeys that you could reasonably want to make across the day. Even if all these journeys are done mostly by car or via wheelchair it is likely a few steps might be made actually on foot. Can you do these repetitions each day - if not why not, what stops you- pain, exhaustion, losing balance, getting dizzy etc? How far can you go on foot, is is simply from a chair straight into the wheelchair and straight into a car?
•reasonable time- does it take more than twice as long as non disabled person?
•acceptable standard
- significant levels of pain are not acceptable. Breathlessness, dizziness, black outs, poor gait etc can all comprise not being acceptable.
The aid mentioned in descriptor 2 could be a crutch, stick frame or even orthotic, but s accepted as not being a wheelchair or scooter. The test requires the ability to stand and then move - standing requires at least one biological foot to be on the ground. Although it sats stand and move the moving part has always been taken to mean walking.
What this means is that you need to consider how far you can walk, whilst remaining safe, being able to repeat , being timely and keeping an acceptable standard, and also considering what happens on the majority of days.
Remember that you may well be able to walk several metres in reality, ( you live in a real world where sometimes you can't use a wheelchair, or there us no nearby parking place etc) but if eg you risk falling and hurting yourself, or you are extremely slow, or have significant pain etc then you need to ignore walking at these times. This may mean your actual real world amount is considerably more than the walk where you remain safe, can repeat etc. Which is the PIP amount.
By performing the analysis suggested above you should find it easier to determine your PIP walking level. This may only be a few steps into a wheelchair for onward travel. It might be several metres, or it might be no steps at all if you fail the criteria.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Mobility for PIP is about walking outdoors.
Think about how you walk, or alternatively why you use the wheelchair. (I know this may be very obvious to you, but DWP don't know you so you need to convince them!)
To gain enhanced mobility under descriptor 2 you need to show either 2e or 2f applies.
2e.Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. 12 points
2f.Cannot, either aided or unaided - (i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre. 12 points
There are 4 criteria that need to be fulfilled. If you fail even just one then you should get points at the level appropriate yo your disability. The criteria are
•safety - is there a risk if substantial harm to you or another - for walking this s most likely to be from falls, but could also include high blood pressure etc
•repetition - needs to be repeated across the whole day as many times as reasonably required. If you consider you might want to go to the bank, go out and post a letter, visit your sister, get a pint a of milk....these are all possible multiple journeys that you could reasonably want to make across the day. Even if all these journeys are done mostly by car or via wheelchair it is likely a few steps might be made actually on foot. Can you do these repetitions each day - if not why not, what stops you- pain, exhaustion, losing balance, getting dizzy etc? How far can you go on foot, is is simply from a chair straight into the wheelchair and straight into a car?
•reasonable time- does it take more than twice as long as non disabled person?
•acceptable standard
- significant levels of pain are not acceptable. Breathlessness, dizziness, black outs, poor gait etc can all comprise not being acceptable.
The aid mentioned in descriptor 2 could be a crutch, stick frame or even orthotic, but s accepted as not being a wheelchair or scooter. The test requires the ability to stand and then move - standing requires at least one biological foot to be on the ground. Although it sats stand and move the moving part has always been taken to mean walking.
What this means is that you need to consider how far you can walk, whilst remaining safe, being able to repeat , being timely and keeping an acceptable standard, and also considering what happens on the majority of days.
Remember that you may well be able to walk several metres in reality, ( you live in a real world where sometimes you can't use a wheelchair, or there us no nearby parking place etc) but if eg you risk falling and hurting yourself, or you are extremely slow, or have significant pain etc then you need to ignore walking at these times. This may mean your actual real world amount is considerably more than the walk where you remain safe, can repeat etc. Which is the PIP amount.
By performing the analysis suggested above you should find it easier to determine your PIP walking level. This may only be a few steps into a wheelchair for onward travel. It might be several metres, or it might be no steps at all if you fail the criteria.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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