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Pip. Vs local authority care needs assessment.
- Flipeteeflop
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1 year 8 months ago #279602 by Flipeteeflop
Pip. Vs local authority care needs assessment. was created by Flipeteeflop
Im aware the two are similar in the sense that they both look to care needs and difficulties.
Pip obviously exists to allow people to spend money getting the help they need in their 12 set criteria. But the assessment seems to want to diverge from these paths in order to try and justify denials, for example i can drive or feed my cat, which are not criteria for pip, therefore i can cook a meal.
We all know these are not the same things, and present very different issues and challenges, but PIP seem to be able to go off piste in this fashion as and when they see fit, even though it is not relevant to their own criteria.
One thing in my assessment report i noted was the HP discussed my lack of social care/or a recent needs assessment following a change of local area.
This was irrelevant at that point, due to having lived with someone until 2 weeks prior, who was a carer for myself, therefore not needing one, and also having just moved area where i was awaiting one.
But LA social care assessments differ very much from PIP and are designed to help those who are severely limited or desperately need help (or maybe thats just lack of funding).
Having now just gone through it, and being told i do not need social care currently as i am too independent, despite them aknowledging the help i need, the difficulties i have and giving me phone numbers of services to help me out with cooking, cleaning, shopping etc, and arranging a community falls alarm to be installed along with other adaptations to the house.
With PIP, if the majority of the days are eating a cold meal, or something pre prepared due to the issues involved, it scores points due to needing help to cook.
With social care, they were happy I am able to feed myself regardless of what i eat, which can literally be just biscuits and chocolate for 3/7 days as i cannot get out of bed, and preprepared meals for the other 4/7.
For social care, as long as i am taking in calories, it seems ok. As long as I can dress myself eventually, the pain, or time, or quality of doing so is irrelevant.
So if the two differ so drastically in who is deemed eligible, and social care righty or wrongly deems people needing help as not nearly bad enough yet, why are PIP allowed to make comments about social care needs that PIP is designed to pay for, in the first place.
My Local authority letter, states we have conducted a care needs assessment and deemed you to not have care needs at this time.
This is despite a falls alarm and adaptations being installed by them, and lists of people being forwarded who can help me (self fubded of course)
I will be asking them to outline what they have suggested and installed and why so that it can help a PIP assessment.
My Local authority letter, states we have conducted a care needs assessment and deemed you to not have care needs at this time.
This is despite a falls alarm and adaptations being installed by them, and lists of people being forwarded who can help me (self fubded of course)
I will be asking them to outline what they have suggested and installed and why so in case it can help a PIP assessment. But would the local authority deeming me to not need care go against me with PIP?
Pip obviously exists to allow people to spend money getting the help they need in their 12 set criteria. But the assessment seems to want to diverge from these paths in order to try and justify denials, for example i can drive or feed my cat, which are not criteria for pip, therefore i can cook a meal.
We all know these are not the same things, and present very different issues and challenges, but PIP seem to be able to go off piste in this fashion as and when they see fit, even though it is not relevant to their own criteria.
One thing in my assessment report i noted was the HP discussed my lack of social care/or a recent needs assessment following a change of local area.
This was irrelevant at that point, due to having lived with someone until 2 weeks prior, who was a carer for myself, therefore not needing one, and also having just moved area where i was awaiting one.
But LA social care assessments differ very much from PIP and are designed to help those who are severely limited or desperately need help (or maybe thats just lack of funding).
Having now just gone through it, and being told i do not need social care currently as i am too independent, despite them aknowledging the help i need, the difficulties i have and giving me phone numbers of services to help me out with cooking, cleaning, shopping etc, and arranging a community falls alarm to be installed along with other adaptations to the house.
With PIP, if the majority of the days are eating a cold meal, or something pre prepared due to the issues involved, it scores points due to needing help to cook.
With social care, they were happy I am able to feed myself regardless of what i eat, which can literally be just biscuits and chocolate for 3/7 days as i cannot get out of bed, and preprepared meals for the other 4/7.
For social care, as long as i am taking in calories, it seems ok. As long as I can dress myself eventually, the pain, or time, or quality of doing so is irrelevant.
So if the two differ so drastically in who is deemed eligible, and social care righty or wrongly deems people needing help as not nearly bad enough yet, why are PIP allowed to make comments about social care needs that PIP is designed to pay for, in the first place.
My Local authority letter, states we have conducted a care needs assessment and deemed you to not have care needs at this time.
This is despite a falls alarm and adaptations being installed by them, and lists of people being forwarded who can help me (self fubded of course)
I will be asking them to outline what they have suggested and installed and why so that it can help a PIP assessment.
My Local authority letter, states we have conducted a care needs assessment and deemed you to not have care needs at this time.
This is despite a falls alarm and adaptations being installed by them, and lists of people being forwarded who can help me (self fubded of course)
I will be asking them to outline what they have suggested and installed and why so in case it can help a PIP assessment. But would the local authority deeming me to not need care go against me with PIP?
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- LL26
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1 year 8 months ago #279605 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic Pip. Vs local authority care needs assessment.
Hi Flipeteeflop,
Pip and local authority care assessments are not testing the same issues.
LA care assessment us to determine whether you are safe at home, and whether with adaptations such as a grab rail, raised toilet seat etc you can manage to live independently at home (The alternative being a care home.) The ethos of (certainly my Local Authority) is to maintain independence at home as long as possible, assuming that this is what us desired by the person involved. If gadgets etc aren't enough, they would then consider whether a carer for an hour or so would be appropriate.
The ethos of PIP isto give extra money to people with disabilities as it is generally understood that being disabled can give rise to more expenses, (eg think taxi rides if you can't drive or walk) and if course versus disabled people may not be able to work or work fewer hours. The descriotor tests have therefore been designed to allow people to show the most common areas of disability that might result in extra money being needed. Either you have one very significant disability in one area or, as is more usual, a number of smaller problems that add up to creating significant disability. This is the rationale of the points system.
Just because the LA care assessment sats you don't need a paid for carer. Bear this in mind too, LA won't want to spend unnecessary money, and if course if you are above the £23500 threshold the LA won't pay for a carer anyway. That said the LA assessment is of value, as it will probably have involved a detailed look at your home, and how you function within this. Remember that proof of a bath room grab rail is not jnecessarily just proof of needing something to help get in the bath, it shows poor mobility, perhaps confirms falls etc which is evidence that may attach to may descriptors.
Also bear in mind that eg bathroom grab rail may facilitate you to get into the bath unaided, which you can't do otherwise. The LA will not be considering whether the grab rail allows you to eg to get in the bath within the reasonable time, or repetition, acceptable standard etc additionally required for PIP.You need to still consider these so-called reliability criteria.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Pip and local authority care assessments are not testing the same issues.
LA care assessment us to determine whether you are safe at home, and whether with adaptations such as a grab rail, raised toilet seat etc you can manage to live independently at home (The alternative being a care home.) The ethos of (certainly my Local Authority) is to maintain independence at home as long as possible, assuming that this is what us desired by the person involved. If gadgets etc aren't enough, they would then consider whether a carer for an hour or so would be appropriate.
The ethos of PIP isto give extra money to people with disabilities as it is generally understood that being disabled can give rise to more expenses, (eg think taxi rides if you can't drive or walk) and if course versus disabled people may not be able to work or work fewer hours. The descriotor tests have therefore been designed to allow people to show the most common areas of disability that might result in extra money being needed. Either you have one very significant disability in one area or, as is more usual, a number of smaller problems that add up to creating significant disability. This is the rationale of the points system.
Just because the LA care assessment sats you don't need a paid for carer. Bear this in mind too, LA won't want to spend unnecessary money, and if course if you are above the £23500 threshold the LA won't pay for a carer anyway. That said the LA assessment is of value, as it will probably have involved a detailed look at your home, and how you function within this. Remember that proof of a bath room grab rail is not jnecessarily just proof of needing something to help get in the bath, it shows poor mobility, perhaps confirms falls etc which is evidence that may attach to may descriptors.
Also bear in mind that eg bathroom grab rail may facilitate you to get into the bath unaided, which you can't do otherwise. The LA will not be considering whether the grab rail allows you to eg to get in the bath within the reasonable time, or repetition, acceptable standard etc additionally required for PIP.You need to still consider these so-called reliability criteria.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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