Job Centre Interview - self employed

I submitted my UC online form Thursday afternoon and almost immediately received notice I would have to attend a job centre interview the next day, Friday afternoon. Shortly after that I then received notice that it is cancelled and I now need to attend Tuesday morning instead.

The reason the first interview was cancelled is because I am a self-employed sole-trader and so along with confirming my identity it is a meeting for them to assess whether I am 'Gainfully self employed' and whether or not I 'Qualify for a start-up period'. I have to take a whole load of stuff with me to this interview - some of it is easy, such as my national insurance number and UTR but some of it is really involved and I just do not have it - CV/Business Plan, receipts, invoices, details of customers etc, Tax Returns, accounts, etc.

I am sick with physical and mental health conditions and have had to stop working in the last couple of months so why do I have to attend this interview and go through all of this? What will happen to my claim when I tell them I do not have the proofs and documents they are asking me for? Will they sanction me?

I understand all the mechanics of the awful 'minimum income floor' for the self-employed and I understand what they mean by 'gainful employment'. I also understand the '12-month business start-up period' which means exemption from the minimum income floor for 12 months, but I don't understand why I have to go through all of this when I am unwell, when I've stated this on my initial claim form and submitted that I have a 3-month sick note from my doctor?

I don't think it makes any difference to what I'm asking, but I was on Working Tax Credits until I made my UC claim - I understand the process for migration from WTC but thought I'd add the fact for completeness. Also, for completeness, I'm currently 64 and will be 65 next April, due to retire in May 2026 - on the State Pension only.

I'm dreading the Job Centre interview Tuesday morning, my son is coming with me but this whole process terrifies me! I'm scared to death that they will be able to stop me from getting any money at all, even for the 13-week assessment period.

Hello TMD!

Spooky! I'm a couple of months ahead of you, with very similar issues in terms of age, physical health, self-employment and managed Migration from Working Tax Credits ("WTC") to Universal Credit ("UC").

I was already Disabled with full DWP PIP and also Disability elements added to WTC.

As we also have Caring issues, we were classed as not Gainfully Self-Employed on that basis, even when we still try to keep working, albeit for a derisory income. One has to try I feel, use it, or lose it!

But when going from WTC to UC, as there is no direct Disability passport based upon either PIP or WTC Disability, I too had to get a Fit Note from our GP.

The reason for that is DWP PIP is looked at in terms of how Disability affects your life, whereas DWP UC looks at how Disability affects your ability to work, so a subtle difference. Basically, DWP PIP does not direct say you cannot work, so DWP UC will want that to be assessed.

Crazy, I know, but that's how it seems to work.

The only difference that I can see between us, is that I instigated the UC Disability route from the outset of my UC Managed Migration Application, so they knew of that issue from day one. Consequently, I was fed straight in to the UC Work Capability v Disability pipeline, which churned out the UC Health Assessment Form known as a UC50.

I completed that, and sent it straight back, but they are taking their time dealing with it. By all that is Holy, my UC50 ought to result in me being declared LCWRA, but that has yet to happen.

They may decide I need a Work Capability Assessment despite my detailed UC50, but I wish them the best of luck with that!

My best suggestion is to make it clear to your Work Coach via the Journal that you are not fit to work, and if you think that could well apply all the way to State Retirement Age, then ask them to instigate the UC Disability process, which should result in you being sent a UC50.

Do be aware the UC50 may not get you to LCWRA directly without an Assessment but, if well presented, with suitable evidence, then it might do. Failing that, you may have to be Assessed. Hopefully that would just be a routine check.

Also, do keep your Fit Notes in chronological sequence, with absolutely no date gaps, so that if and when you are declared LCWRA, you will get the LCWRA Benefit back-dated to either your Application to UC, or the date of your Fit Note issue, or both if you Applied and obtained a Fit Note on the same day.

Fit Note dates are inclusive so, the Fit Note Expiry Date is also included and classed as a day when unfit to work.

Say 01/01/2024 to 31/03/2024, the last day is included.

So, make sure the next Fit Note in the above example starts from 01/04/2024, so there are no gaps in Fit Note cover.

Your NHS GP can back-date Fit Notes, so when getting the next one, aim to ask on the day your existing Fit Note expires, or the next day, and make sure the GP starts the next Fit Note from the day after the last one expires.

If your health Condition has lasted longer than six months, then the GP can issue an indefinite Fit Note, if Clinically Appropriate to do so. Say into State Retirement Age would do nicely.

Otherwise DWP UC will only backdate your LCWRA to the date of the most recent Fit Note.

Lastly, make sure the GP completes the Fit Note to say you do need to be reassessed at the end of the Fit Note, otherwise DWP UC will consider you fit to work the day after the Fit Note expires. That seems to work the opposite of what one might think, in that if unfit, and the GP knows you will be at expiry of the Fit Note, then it seems pointless reassessing you. But what this does is flag that the GP considers you may well not be fit to work at expiry of the Fit Note, and by implication, could well be issuing another Fit Note straight away.

I hope this helps.

Jorvick88

Thanks David, that sounds like a good plan. It's very unlikely I'll go back to being self-employed anyway as the work I was doing (domestic cleaning) became way too physical for me anyway and I was becoming more and more ill because of it.

Hello Jorvick88 and David,

Thank you so much for taking the time to share all your great information with me. The tips on the Fit Note dates and my doctor putting on it that I'll need to be reassessed at the end of each Fit Nate are particularly helpful to me.

I had my interview yesterday and the experience was quite positive. My Work Coach seems empathetic and knowledgeable and she has deemed me not 'gainfully self-employed'. I still have to report my self-employed earnings in my UC Journal each monthly period even though it will be a zero figure.

My journal states that a UC50 form is being sent to me via post - I will of course use the excellent B and W guides to assist me in completing it! Despite this though, I can't help feeling that I will not make it into the LCWRA group, not because the guides are lacking in any way but because of how Welfare and Benefits are so much in the press at the moment and the alarming things I am reading that this government seems hell-bent on inflicting upon sick and disabled people.

It would of course be marvellous if I did get into the LCWRA group as it would mean the difference between scraping by on a meagre income every month and actually being able to eat properly and take better care of myself.

I am worried that my mental health conditions of depression and anxiety and in particular social anxiety, won't be taken seriously enough to have LCWRA.

I do have severe tinnitus as well. I have no idea what causes is - I had a hearing test recently, which showed my hearing is fine. I suspect it might be caused by long-term medication. I'm not sure how seriously tinnitus is taken as far as it being considered as having limitations on work capability.

I'm also under medical investigation for extreme exhaustion. Blood tests didn't show anything untoward and my doctor now strongly suspects that I have Obstructive Sleep Apnoea (OSA). I'm awaiting an appointment at a Sleep Centre - there's a 19-week waiting list for that! Again, I am unsure how OSA will translate into having limited capability for work.

There seems to be a particular emphasis on 'clamping down' on people suffering with mental health issues. I fear that no matter how well I convey my health issues, reasons will be found to deem me 'Fit for work'. I'm pretty certain I will have to undertake a WCA.

I don't have to attend the Job Centre again until 17th of January so that at least is something.

Thank you again for your help.

TMD