Confused - No form ESA65A

I need guidance please.

Recently I went through the IB to ESA transfer process. I hoped to get put into the 'support group' but surprise, surprise, instead I found myself in the 'wrag' (and like a lot of other claimants, I DIDN'T have a medical) and was told I'd be reviewed again in 2 years.

For about 6 or 7 weeks, I've been trying to get a copy of the medical evidence on my file to see on what basis the decision to put me into the 'wrag'was made. Based on guidance from a previous post I made on this forum, I have repeatedly asked the job centre plus office for forms ESA85A (medical report form) and ESA65A. I made the request by telephone 5 times but was only ever sent ESA85A completed by a registered nurse working for ATOS. This document is frankly, a waste of printed paper because it could actually be written about somebody else! It's very contradictory and basically says I can do all the things I cant and dont have all the problems I do!!!

I'm aware from other forum posts that like me, people have also experienced difficulties getting the documents they've asked for. Therefore, I felt that I had no option other than to make a formal complaint. A response has now been received and the job centre plus admit that mistakes were made as their records show all the times I contacted them but they couldn't explain why I wasn't sent the documents! Furthermore, I still don't have form ESA65A - instead, I've been sent a further copy of ESA85A together with form LT54 DMACR.

This form from the 'decision maker' starts at part 3 and doesn't make reference to any of the descriptors or where I've scored points - it just says 'having considered the available evidence I have determined that Mrs ******* has scored at least 15 points from the appropriate descriptors and has limited capability for work".

I queried this form with JCP because I couldnt believe that this is all the decision maker has said but it was! I received a telephone call and was told that there is NO form ESA65A as that is only completed when people are NOT awarded ESA at all. They basically said that is all the information they have on their files but because they admit they've made a mistake by not responding to my telephone requests, have said that they WILL accept a late appeal from me if I want to pursue that.

Today I've been weighing up the pros and cons of appealing but this afternoon received a phone call from a decision maker at JCP who told me that he'd been asked to look at my case and reconsider it. He enquired if there was anything I wished to add or whether anything had changed since completion of my ESA50 in August. It was inconvenient to talk as I wasnt feeling well so he's going to ring me again tomorrow.

Anyway, I'm confused about all this and it seems that perhaps JCP are back-peddling because they've realised that the original decision maker perhaps didn't do a proper report so now they've got another decision maker reconsidering my case (I didnt ask for this to happen or say that I was definitely going to appeal). However, I'm very worried that I could now lose my ESA entirely (although thinking logically I'm hoping this is probably unlikely as I was originally told that I'd scored enough points for WRAG and wouldnt be reviewed again for 2 years).

Can anyone offer me their thoughts on this situation - shall I just let them carry on with their reconsideration? I'm tempted to appeal anyway as I think I can demonstrate that I should be in the 'support group' but obviously, they may not agree! Thank you!

Mod edit: Can you please ensure that posts are not excessively long, as this post was certainly a borderline case for deletion due to its length, Please see section 5 of the FAQs.

WENDY wrote:

I need guidance please.

Recently I went through the IB to ESA transfer process. I hoped to get put into the 'support group' but surprise, surprise, instead I found myself in the 'wrag' (and like a lot of other claimants, I DIDN'T have a medical) and was told I'd be reviewed again in 2 years.

For about 6 or 7 weeks, I've been trying to get a copy of the medical evidence on my file to see on what basis the decision to put me into the 'wrag'was made. Based on guidance from a previous post I made on this forum, I have repeatedly asked the job centre plus office for forms ESA85A (medical report form) and ESA65A. I made the request by telephone 5 times but was only ever sent ESA85A completed by a registered nurse working for ATOS. This document is frankly, a waste of printed paper because it could actually be written about somebody else! It's very contradictory and basically says I can do all the things I cant and dont have all the problems I do!!!

I'm aware from other forum posts that like me, people have also experienced difficulties getting the documents they've asked for. Therefore, I felt that I had no option other than to make a formal complaint. A response has now been received and the job centre plus admit that mistakes were made as their records show all the times I contacted them but they couldn't explain why I wasn't sent the documents! Furthermore, I still don't have form ESA65A - instead, I've been sent a further copy of ESA85A together with form LT54 DMACR.

This form from the 'decision maker' starts at part 3 and doesn't make reference to any of the descriptors or where I've scored points - it just says 'having considered the available evidence I have determined that Mrs ******* has scored at least 15 points from the appropriate descriptors and has limited capability for work".

I queried this form with JCP because I couldnt believe that this is all the decision maker has said but it was! I received a telephone call and was told that there is NO form ESA65A as that is only completed when people are NOT awarded ESA at all. They basically said that is all the information they have on their files but because they admit they've made a mistake by not responding to my telephone requests, have said that they WILL accept a late appeal from me if I want to pursue that.

Today I've been weighing up the pros and cons of appealing but this afternoon received a phone call from a decision maker at JCP who told me that he'd been asked to look at my case and reconsider it. He enquired if there was anything I wished to add or whether anything had changed since completion of my ESA50 in August. It was inconvenient to talk as I wasnt feeling well so he's going to ring me again tomorrow.

Anyway, I'm confused about all this and it seems that perhaps JCP are back-peddling because they've realised that the original decision maker perhaps didn't do a proper report so now they've got another decision maker reconsidering my case (I didnt ask for this to happen or say that I was definitely going to appeal). However, I'm very worried that I could now lose my ESA entirely (although thinking logically I'm hoping this is probably unlikely as I was originally told that I'd scored enough points for WRAG and wouldnt be reviewed again for 2 years).

Can anyone offer me their thoughts on this situation - shall I just let them carry on with their reconsideration? I'm tempted to appeal anyway as I think I can demonstrate that I should be in the 'support group' but obviously, they may not agree! Thank you!

Mod edit: Can you please ensure that posts are not excessively long, as this post was certainly a borderline case for deletion due to its length, Please see section 5 of the FAQs.

Hi W,

It is becoming apparent that an ESA65 would not have been generated in your case.

B&W has made a FOI request to try and clarify what documents are generated.

See Here. :

ESA Forms

With regards to risk involved see here. :

Is there any risk to challenging a decision?

With regards to gaining SG status, see here. :

Qualifying for the Support Group


With regards to appealing, see here. :

How to submit an appeal

The important thing is that you do not lose your right to appeal. by going beyond any deadline that the DWP may give you.

I would clarify this tommorrow.

If they are to change the decision in your favour, I would give them a deadline (within your appeal deadline) of a cut off date by which you should have received written confirmation of any reconsidered decision, failure by the DWP to meet this deadline would then trigger your appeal.

bro58

Insofar as form ESA65 arises, the DWP are 'probably' correct in what they are telling you in that it is only issued in ESA disallowance cases. However, B & W are currently trying to establish if such a form exists, when a claimant is placed into the WRAG and wishes to know their points score? As soon as these details become available, if and when the DWP choose to divulge the information, members will be informed accordingly.

On the question of an appeal, it is not for the DWP to decide whether a late appeal should be admitted, as this is a matter entirely for the Tribunals Service. However, if you intend to appeal to be placed into the SG, you should submit an appeal as soon as possible. If the ongoing reconsideration is successful you can simply withdraw the appeal, but if the reconsideration fails, the appeal would proceed subject to the admission of a late appeal by the TS.

I have had the same problem. I have been told so many different things but the last JCP member told me that a ESA65 is not completed when no medical has taken place therefore no breakdown of points scored. It is done on scrutiny of your ESA50. I have made several requests both by letter and telephone for IB medical reports they must have from my previous medicals. Today I received a letter stating all documentation pertaining to me prior to 2008 have been destroyed!
I was of the understanding that such documents should be kept for a set period of time ie 10 years, can anyone clarify this for me? It would appear that they intend to make it as difficult as possible for me to formulate my appeal.

pegaso wrote:

I have had the same problem. I have been told so many different things but the last JCP member told me that a ESA65 is not completed when no medical has taken place therefore no breakdown of points scored. It is done on scrutiny of your ESA50. I have made several requests both by letter and telephone for IB medical reports they must have from my previous medicals. Today I received a letter stating all documentation pertaining to me prior to 2008 have been destroyed!
I was of the understanding that such documents should be kept for a set period of time ie 10 years, can anyone clarify this for me? It would appear that they intend to make it as difficult as possible for me to formulate my appeal.

Hi P,

Please see word doc from this link, re : DWP Doc retention. :

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/16691/res...P%20BDDR%20Guide.doc · DOC file

bro58

bro58 wrote:

pegaso wrote:

I have had the same problem. I have been told so many different things but the last JCP member told me that a ESA65 is not completed when no medical has taken place therefore no breakdown of points scored. It is done on scrutiny of your ESA50. I have made several requests both by letter and telephone for IB medical reports they must have from my previous medicals. Today I received a letter stating all documentation pertaining to me prior to 2008 have been destroyed!
I was of the understanding that such documents should be kept for a set period of time ie 10 years, can anyone clarify this for me? It would appear that they intend to make it as difficult as possible for me to formulate my appeal.

Hi P,

Please see word doc from this link, re : DWP Doc retention. :

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/16691/res...P%20BDDR%20Guide.doc · DOC file

bro58

Here also. :


www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/16691/res...DDR%20Guide.doc.html

bro58