Appeal - Whether to send a submission or not

IB from 1998 to ESA50 from June 2012 - placed in WRAG - Appeal in 3 weeks time for SG
Numerous and lengthy detailed additional information and explanation pages were
Supplied with ESA50, with old reports from Pychiatrist (2000), attending psychological therapies dept (1998) and Neurologist (1998)– purely to dismiss any suggestion of self diagnosis to wording or how the effects from a head injury/accident re PTSD some time ago.
(nothing else to verbal advice given to me, I was prob the 1% does not respond to some treatment)

Varying long term health conditions; PTSD (1998) resulting from head injury/accident,
long term depression and anxiety, (1998) arthritis hands, knees, neck, lumbar spondylol, sciatica,

My Difficulty- updated evidence ? I am late, but now have statements from husband and 2 other family members hopefully to send off now (within 7 days of appeal date)
Q1) Would these family statements be considered as ‘additional evidence’ ? (see 3)

Q2) Most Respectful tone – do the panel members at an Appeal actually read all the ESA50 form as well as additional explanation pages I submitted ? (reasons for my asking, I am thinking only, that I am struggling to decide whether to send); this is to dismiss my consideration of a submission ?

Q3) Submission letter (from husband on my behalf, creating of letter and attending with me) to try and raise some points, (on ESA50 I’ve got carried away, and upon re reading, I’ve gone off the track here and there I can’t identify what to question or ask the panel to reconsider exactly, because I extended lengthy detailed additional pages ? the score sheet reading nil doesn’t help to ‘highlight’ or bring to the panel’s attention anything I would like to ask them to reconsider (downfall to extended additional pages maybe)? No worries, just your gut feeling ?

This part is confusing to me and driving me nuts (doesn’t take much) different extracts from bundle;
Sec 3) The decision
DM states the claimant scored at least 15 points, next para states none of the descriptors set
out in Sch 3 to the ESA regs apply = WRAG
sec 4) The facts - DM states the HCP an examination was not deemed to be necessary, the opinion
of the HCP form ESA85A did not meet any of the desc dealing with ltd cap for work rel activity
Sec 6) DM extract, regrettably the add evidence provided does not affect the medical assess, I have
not demonstrated entitlement to the support comp for ESA, the HCP id that I met the threshold
on a combination desc, but no evidence to support criteria of Sch 3 for SG
DM regrettably claimant no additional evidence was submitted
(at the same time appeal letter I think?)
Q3) I don’t know specifically what more they need (be brutal and tell me please?) I don’t have
any other ‘specialist’ to ask, that’s why I provided detailed information on add pages

GP letter – a list of conditions, operations (but does not state how things effect me etc) just facts
was provided with my ESA50 form - recent visit to GP, seemed reluctant (busy) to do a medical
statement, GP suggested that the previous letter really, should of been sufficient ?
Q4) I have read (over and over) and understand how a medical statement in full throw would be
Black and white – but would my GP’s list of conditions provided, be worth mentioning (in submission)?

Extracts from ESA85A – HCP (Nurse) prognosis, advises that a return to work is unlikely for at least 2
Yrs, states significant level of disability due to multiple pathology
long term disability ESA50 is consistent with the upper and lower limb pathology, are likely to meet threshold on a combination of descriptors, states unlikely to return to work in the longer term


copy of the Score sheet Nil for physical and Nil for mental assessment
this is conflicting to me, so sorry, but can you help me to understand a bit more,
Q5) re: How can I possibly know how to ask a panel (or via submission prior to) to ask
them to look at, or reconsider a description when I don’t know which one, and as I
have provided detailed add pages with ESA50, would it seem impolite (not to upset
them) to look at a number of pages ? or should I ? don’t wish to upset the panel

Q6) Having read so much I am confusing myself, I feel I have scored 15 points but not
Met any desc in Sec 3 (ridiculous) is it extra points I need? or where/how can I help
Myself at the appeal ? don’t be afraid to be brutal, where do you think I scored the
15 points – is this for the mental part only, d you consider, re the reason for no SG ?

Q7) I have not supplied a Fit Note, in my case – should I obtain one ? not done so for years

Q8) Time during appeal, is it 40 mins approx? I am dreading if it’s a lengthy questioning
or a challenging process, I am dreading it (appt is early am) as I have read others have?

Q9) When (on the day?) for the result of the appeal?

DLA form – too afraid and lengthly to apply for in the past, but I have just finished completing, I
mentioned this in my ESA50 form and letter of appeal – but its not gone off yet (this week) I was
waiting for my family members to produce their letters for me, as well as me being a coward to
apply, but I’ve mentioned to my GP lately that I was applying (thanks to help from B&W)
Q10) Will the ESA Appeal panel take this into account or have any effect on my DLA application?
Q11) Appeal - Do you think (not in receipt of DLA previous) has not helped
(ie recognition) for DLA? - sorry I am trying to understand why WRAG and how can I improve

Note to all mods, your are absolutely brilliant and provide a very important life line to your members the service is invaluable, your patience and time is superb, people like me gain confidence
to do or write things we would not of otherwise have done, and realise we mustn’t take anything
for granted during long periods of ill health, where would we be without you ?
Thank you kindly, I have lots of difficulties, can’t sleep and tearful all the time, I have resolved myself
to the outcome, but you’ve given me the confidence to attend an appeal –I would not be in the
WRAG or attending an Appeal, without B&W help and guidance – thank you ever so much, and I
apologise for lengthy writing and questions, any response is greatly appreciated, and I do promise
to reply with the outcome at my appeal, any tips/experiences from other members attending an
appeal would be more than welcomed, I appreciate your time, thank you whole heartedly

Jan57 wrote:

IB from 1998 to ESA50 from June 2012 - placed in WRAG - Appeal in 3 weeks time for SG
Numerous and lengthy detailed additional information and explanation pages were
Supplied with ESA50, with old reports from Pychiatrist (2000), attending psychological therapies dept (1998) and Neurologist (1998)– purely to dismiss any suggestion of self diagnosis to wording or how the effects from a head injury/accident re PTSD some time ago.
(nothing else to verbal advice given to me, I was prob the 1% does not respond to some treatment)

Varying long term health conditions; PTSD (1998) resulting from head injury/accident,
long term depression and anxiety, (1998) arthritis hands, knees, neck, lumbar spondylol, sciatica,

My Difficulty- updated evidence ? I am late, but now have statements from husband and 2 other family members hopefully to send off now (within 7 days of appeal date)
Q1) Would these family statements be considered as ‘additional evidence’ ? (see 3)

Q2) Most Respectful tone – do the panel members at an Appeal actually read all the ESA50 form as well as additional explanation pages I submitted ? (reasons for my asking, I am thinking only, that I am struggling to decide whether to send); this is to dismiss my consideration of a submission ?

Q3) Submission letter (from husband on my behalf, creating of letter and attending with me) to try and raise some points, (on ESA50 I’ve got carried away, and upon re reading, I’ve gone off the track here and there I can’t identify what to question or ask the panel to reconsider exactly, because I extended lengthy detailed additional pages ? the score sheet reading nil doesn’t help to ‘highlight’ or bring to the panel’s attention anything I would like to ask them to reconsider (downfall to extended additional pages maybe)? No worries, just your gut feeling ?

This part is confusing to me and driving me nuts (doesn’t take much) different extracts from bundle;
Sec 3) The decision
DM states the claimant scored at least 15 points, next para states none of the descriptors set
out in Sch 3 to the ESA regs apply = WRAG
sec 4) The facts - DM states the HCP an examination was not deemed to be necessary, the opinion
of the HCP form ESA85A did not meet any of the desc dealing with ltd cap for work rel activity
Sec 6) DM extract, regrettably the add evidence provided does not affect the medical assess, I have
not demonstrated entitlement to the support comp for ESA, the HCP id that I met the threshold
on a combination desc, but no evidence to support criteria of Sch 3 for SG
DM regrettably claimant no additional evidence was submitted
(at the same time appeal letter I think?)
Q3) I don’t know specifically what more they need (be brutal and tell me please?) I don’t have
any other ‘specialist’ to ask, that’s why I provided detailed information on add pages

GP letter – a list of conditions, operations (but does not state how things effect me etc) just facts
was provided with my ESA50 form - recent visit to GP, seemed reluctant (busy) to do a medical
statement, GP suggested that the previous letter really, should of been sufficient ?
Q4) I have read (over and over) and understand how a medical statement in full throw would be
Black and white – but would my GP’s list of conditions provided, be worth mentioning (in submission)?

Extracts from ESA85A – HCP (Nurse) prognosis, advises that a return to work is unlikely for at least 2
Yrs, states significant level of disability due to multiple pathology
long term disability ESA50 is consistent with the upper and lower limb pathology, are likely to meet threshold on a combination of descriptors, states unlikely to return to work in the longer term


copy of the Score sheet Nil for physical and Nil for mental assessment
this is conflicting to me, so sorry, but can you help me to understand a bit more,
Q5) re: How can I possibly know how to ask a panel (or via submission prior to) to ask
them to look at, or reconsider a description when I don’t know which one, and as I
have provided detailed add pages with ESA50, would it seem impolite (not to upset
them) to look at a number of pages ? or should I ? don’t wish to upset the panel

Q6) Having read so much I am confusing myself, I feel I have scored 15 points but not
Met any desc in Sec 3 (ridiculous) is it extra points I need? or where/how can I help
Myself at the appeal ? don’t be afraid to be brutal, where do you think I scored the
15 points – is this for the mental part only, d you consider, re the reason for no SG ?

Q7) I have not supplied a Fit Note, in my case – should I obtain one ? not done so for years

Q8) Time during appeal, is it 40 mins approx? I am dreading if it’s a lengthy questioning
or a challenging process, I am dreading it (appt is early am) as I have read others have?

Q9) When (on the day?) for the result of the appeal?

DLA form – too afraid and lengthly to apply for in the past, but I have just finished completing, I
mentioned this in my ESA50 form and letter of appeal – but its not gone off yet (this week) I was
waiting for my family members to produce their letters for me, as well as me being a coward to
apply, but I’ve mentioned to my GP lately that I was applying (thanks to help from B&W)
Q10) Will the ESA Appeal panel take this into account or have any effect on my DLA application?
Q11) Appeal - Do you think (not in receipt of DLA previous) has not helped
(ie recognition) for DLA? - sorry I am trying to understand why WRAG and how can I improve

Note to all mods, your are absolutely brilliant and provide a very important life line to your members the service is invaluable, your patience and time is superb, people like me gain confidence
to do or write things we would not of otherwise have done, and realise we mustn’t take anything
for granted during long periods of ill health, where would we be without you ?
Thank you kindly, I have lots of difficulties, can’t sleep and tearful all the time, I have resolved myself
to the outcome, but you’ve given me the confidence to attend an appeal –I would not be in the
WRAG or attending an Appeal, without B&W help and guidance – thank you ever so much, and I
apologise for lengthy writing and questions, any response is greatly appreciated, and I do promise
to reply with the outcome at my appeal, any tips/experiences from other members attending an
appeal would be more than welcomed, I appreciate your time, thank you whole heartedly

hi J57,

Q1. Yes

Q2.The Tribunal panel are supposed to read all submitted evidence from both parties. Obviously it is advantageous to keep this as concise as possible, and try and stick to bullet points. After all, all that the Tribunal are interested in is, do you qualify for The SG, with respect to the law and the qualifying descriptors?

Q3.Anything that helps to prove that you qualify for The SG should help, try and make it as easy as possible for The Tribunal to grasp these points and find in your favour.

"DM states the claimant scored at least 15 points, next para states none of the descriptors set
out in Sch 3 to the ESA regs apply = WRAG"

Sch 3 is The SG descriptors, see : www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/228/schedule/2/made?view=plain , so you haven't fulfilled at least one of those.

It is saying that you have scored at least the minimum 15 points cumulatively required for WRAG entry, see : www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/228/schedule/1/made?view=plain

" The facts - DM states the HCP an examination was not deemed to be necessary, the opinion
of the HCP form ESA85A did not meet any of the desc dealing with ltd cap for work rel activity"

A face to face assessment was not needed as the HCP felt that they had enough info to make a recommendation of WRAG.

You didn't meet any of The Limited Capability for Work Related Activity descriptors, (LCWRA SG Descriptors Sch 3 as above)

If you haven't got any fresh evidence reiterate how and why you qualify in at least one of Sch 3 (LCWRA Descriptors SG)

"Extracts from ESA85A – HCP (Nurse) prognosis, advises that a return to work is unlikely for at least 2
Yrs, states significant level of disability due to multiple pathology
long term disability ESA50 is consistent with the upper and lower limb pathology, are likely to meet threshold on a combination of descriptors, states unlikely to return to work in the longer term"

These phrases are generated by The LiMA software, and chosen as applicable by the HCP, and are seen on many ESA85A's

The prognosis by the HCP, you can read about this in The WCA Handbook, from : ESA Guides

Q5. You should endeavour to show the Tribunal which SG descriptors you feel apply to you and why.

Q6 Explained above Re : Sch 3.

Q7. If you are in The WRAG, you are classed as "Unfit" for work, so you do not need a MED3, however you are classed as being able to take part in Work Related Activity, WFI's WRA.

Q8. It varies, 40 mins is an average.

Q9. You may be given the result on the day, or it may be posted out to you, again it varies.

Q10. The Tribunal are only there to consider whether or not you qualify for ESA in The SG at the time of the adverse WRAG decision.

Q11. DLA and ESA are two totally seperate benefits, with a few crossovers. ESA assesses you for capability for work DLA is to do with mobility issues and/or care needs.

bro58

Thank you Gordon, firstly give yourself the best Golden Star
in reponding and so quickly, this does give me confidence through the giddy clouds ..
ooh - statements need to go off quickly then, the appeal letter
giving date of hearing stated any further evidence receive no later
than 7 days before ... will do so well in advance.
thank you and B&W kindly for the advice, it is appreciated, and I understand.
(my other concern was asking daughter for a letter of support, as
a mother - she's recently qualified as a nurse RNA, do you think
this (initials after name) should be put or not? whilst trying to be
congruent and transparent, it could be dismissed at the same time?
I do worry over small detail I know, but trying to consider how the
panel may view ?

Thank you bro 58 (sorry I put Gordon)
Your all BRILL to me, was rushing to say thanks !!!!