Most commentators have assumed that the Conservatives would always vote in favour of anything that resembled a benefits cut. But there now seems to be a possibility that the Tories are planning to support Labour rebels and vote against Labour’s Green Paper.

On 18 May, Conservative MP Helen Whately told the Standard: “Labour’s plans dodge the difficult decisions on welfare, leave more people out of work than they put in and will hit some of the nation’s poorest people.

“The sickness benefits bill is spiralling out of control and these rushed reforms will make things worse, not better.

“These plans are cruel, careless and clumsy. And it seems that even some of the people closest to Reeves agree with us, not her.”

What makes this total condemnation of the Green Paper particularly noteworthy is that Whately is the Conservative shadow secretary for work and pensions.  It seems unlikely that she would have been so outspoken in her criticism without party approval.

It is clear that the rebellion on Labour’s back benches has been growing in the two months since the Green Paper was published.

On 1 April, the Labour List website published the names of 27 MPs who said they would rebel against the government and 15 more who had expressed opposition to the Green Paper.

On 8 May, 42 Labour MPs wrote to the prime minister to say the cuts were impossible to support.

On 15 May, ITV reported that 50 Labour MPs were set to rebel, including the 42 who had signed the original letter.  100 MPs had also signed a private letter to Starmer urging the government to delay the changes and rethink its proposals. At least 6 MPs signed both letters.

Which suggests that somewhere in the region of 130 Labour MPs oppose the cuts, though there is no suggestion they would all vote against them.

The labour leadership are said to be considering a number of ways to buy off the rebels.  These include changes to the winter fuel payment means-test, changes to the two child limit or changes to the benefits cap. 

The idea will be to tell rebel MPs that the government doesn’t have the cash help these groups and also to drop its Green Paper cuts.

Whether this is a pitch that will work, remains to be seen.

But there seems to be at least a possibility that the Conservatives are now positioning themselves to take advantage of Labour’s disarray.

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    · 7 hours ago
    Wow, first hint Labour could be rattled on welfare cuts??


    Downing Street said the change was a result of an improved economic landscape, with sources saying ministers could revisit policies including the two-child benefit cap or health and disability cuts if the economy continued to improve.


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      · 6 hours ago
      @Gingin
      "Wow, first hint Labour could be rattled on welfare cuts??"

      Probably an attempt to bribe their own MPs to throw sick and disabled people under the bus. I'm not sure that will fly though, especially not now that the Work and Pensions select committee has called for the cuts to be paused due to, among other things, concern over increased risk of suicides. Any Labour MP who supports the cuts after a concern like that has been voiced is taking a position which Sir Humphrey would no doubt describe as "courageous".
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    · 8 hours ago
    ITV News did a big segment tonight (Weds 21st) about the gathering disquiet over welfare reform and Debbie Abrams (sp??) of the Work and Pensions Committee is now calling for a pause to cuts. ITV think concessions will have to be made 
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    · 9 hours ago
    Just had my email reply from Sarah olney mp from lib dems and it’s very encouraging she states if the government was serious about cutting welfare spending labour would get serious about fixing the health and social care also tye broken dwp office also kicking into gear the new hospitals needed instead of kicking into the long grass. Also liberal democrats have still not seen the legislation and also the official impact assessment at the moment. We will not be voting for the reform has it is planned until we see more clarification on the reform green paper. So that was my email I have received and it’s encouraging that we will fight this reform with liberals and hopefully conservatives on our side thank you for reading 
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      · 7 hours ago
      @diceman24 It is too rushed. As if welfare reform is just a tick box to Labour to « show » their achievements.  I agree with Sarah that if they were serious they would be investing in people’s health, not just empty promises. Lib dems seem to be the decent ones right now. 
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    · 10 hours ago
    Apparently Committee of MPs urge Starmer to pause disability cuts amid poverty fears in letter seen by ITV News is latest headline tonight and heard somewhere else the uturn on winter fuel won't be enough to stop rebellion.
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      · 6 hours ago
      @Dez Well said . It won’t even save them that much because making people destitute means they’ll become another government problem at social services. I really don’t believe these proposals can work. Pushing and bullying won’t make disability go away. 
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      · 8 hours ago
      @Lill "the uturn on winter fuel won't be enough to stop rebellion." Of course it wont. It's downright insulting. 
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      · 9 hours ago
      @Lill It's truly sickening how Starmer is even refusing to consider a delay or a pause on voting these proposals through until a full impact statement can be done. He just wants to write things into law as quickly as possible before the consequences can be fully realised so he doesn't lose his precious votes and it'll be too late to do anything.

      He's playing with the lives of millions of people and he knows it. It's downright baffling how seemingly nobody can step up and say this is deplorable and plugging your ears in the evidence of people dying needlessly to save a few quid shouldn't be how anybody - let alone a person in a position of power - should operate.
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    · 10 hours ago
    Notice Starmer was very careful to say it's will be a fiscal event, likely meaning in the Autumn statement.  If it is affordable...

    So, not definite then?

    We'll use it now to quell any rebellion against cuts to the disabled and get that voted through.  Then come the Autumn statement, sorry it's unaffordable to change the winter fuel allowance because Rachel from accounts made another cock-up and things didn't quite go to plan... but it's good that we got the benefit cuts through and devastated the lives of 1.4 million disabled, ill and the most vulnerable in our country.  We did get 3 disabled people into unpaid voluntary jobs for a couple of weeks...  Job well done, even if we do say so ourselves!
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    · 12 hours ago
    CAB have now turned on the government, and more unions.
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      · 8 hours ago
      @Leprechaun. I wondered why the unions have ignored their disabled and retired members. Useless money grabbers like their Labour overlords. 
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    · 12 hours ago
    People need to keep emailing MPs before vote and say the cuts can't happen not all MPs will buy the uturn and abig number should still vote against the cuts .
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      · 7 hours ago
      @Lill Yes and we are watching those who abstain.  Or absent themselves from voting.  Vote for those who clearly don’t support this performative cruelty.  
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    · 12 hours ago
    Lies, hypocrisy and cruelty. You’re finished Starmer. 

    I never thought I’d say that but there we are.
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      · 10 hours ago
      @The Dogmother "PCS’s Department of Work and Pensions group president Angela Grant meanwhile said that violence at jobcentres has “escalated off the planet” due to a rise in far-right rhetoric by politicians.

      She said that a member of staff had their car set on fire, others have been issued death threats and blades have been carried into jobcentres."

      Yep, I'd consider this Exhibit A-Z as to why very few are willing to work at a Jobcentre.

      To be honest, whoever is working at Jobcentres should absolutely stand up alongside disabled people. The government doesn't care about us finding work, so they certainly don't care about your safety. You're also a sacrifice they're willing to make.
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    · 13 hours ago
    The whole process gives insufficient chance for in depth debate. The fact the speaker of the hoc will stop anyone for not being brief says it all about an administration that will not settle to a task and work it through thoroughly.

    So few of those responsible for devising, deciding on or implementing these welfare measures have even the slimmest understanding of the system. They just want to sweep forward, further and faster, brushing all the untidy loose ends under the carpet, leaving the whole muddle to surface and smother us when it's too late to sort it.

    There's no regard for those who are bound to be collateral damage, it's just an experiment.
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      · 8 hours ago
      @Gingin Sure thing, Gingin! Especially when they either don't have the intellect to work it all out and/or can't be bothered to put in the hours, we have to tell them how it is and what to do.

      I've found it quite a successful strategy with MRs and tribunals. One judge fired back at me, when I laid out a point and said "but, you know that" and she said "well you've told us that". I still won, though, and I really don' t think we will fail.
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      · 11 hours ago
      @godgivemestrength Yes, you’re right. But if we have to spoon feed them the information, let’s keep it coming. Let’s make sure they can’t ignore us. Keep biting at their heels until we become too annoying to ignore. I’m a realist, and I know we might fail, but if we lie down and give up we most definitely will. 
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    · 13 hours ago
    I'll write again to Race (Exeter MP) again, but not hopeful he has changed his mind. 

    We need at least 75 labour MP's to vote against the planned changes in the Green Paper (not just to abstain).  If we do get a really substantial rebellion then Starmer/Reeves/Kendall may decide to change tack/concessions. We can hope that the House of Lords, and particularly when the Bill enters the committee stage, that amendments will be made.  It will not be perfect and clearly the days of the welfare state as a whole are numbered, but at least it may not be totally catastrophic. Keep mentioning: a, the added costs that these cuts will provoke (mandatory reconsiderations, tribunals and added stress on social care and the medical professions) and b: that as a block we are very large minority who can - and hopefully will - vote against labour at the next GE, although I fear what the consequences of that might be....
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      · 11 hours ago
      @MATT I wrote to my MP again for a second time to see if she might change her mind . Still awaiting an answer but I do know that her original reply was the almost exact words of some other MP reply that was put on this site .. Are they all told to write the same answer in their replies. 
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    · 13 hours ago
    He's AI, isn't he, Starmer? We'll have to find a way to re-code him, or short cIrcuit the motherboard so we can find a human to talk to.
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      · 8 hours ago
      @rtbcpart 2 How about we get the tardis and send HIM back where he came from? There's none stranger than he is.
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      · 11 hours ago
      @rtbcpart 2 I thought we got rid of Maybot?
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      · 12 hours ago
      @rtbcpart 2 Ha! What a genius idea!
      Reprogramme him- the answer to all our problems! 
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    · 13 hours ago

    Another analysis that proves the government's claims about work setting us free and getting us all out of poverty is yet another lie.  Not that we didn't all know this anyway.
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    · 14 hours ago
    I too believe that they'll press ahead with the cuts, GB News/Telegraph/Sun/Daily Mail and Reform can all celebrate as their pensioners, many of whom don't need 300 pounds get their WFA once again and they can all go back to bashing the disabled as useless eaters ect. 

    I'm feeling a little bitter to be honest.
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      · 7 hours ago
      @Xr22 And the hostile environment that we face if we try to work.  The government could help with this but seem intent on  encouraging hostility. 
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      · 7 hours ago
      @Dave Dee The WFA isn't going to be reinstated for all pensioners. Starmer said he wants more pensioners to be eligible but the there will be an income level cut off, the details of which are to be worked out.
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      · 8 hours ago
      @Xr22 Me too. So many pensioners don’t need it. Ditto for Child Benefit. Paid regardless of need. It would be better to just give it to basic rate tax payers or those below that rate. 
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      · 12 hours ago
      @Dave Dee Me too, I'm growing very tired of constantly hearing about the one-off 300 pound WFA payment, meanwhile we sick and disabled are about to lose literally ALL of our income, totalling thousands of pounds. I wish people would realise the truly dire situation the sick and disabled are currently in!
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    · 14 hours ago
    I note they keep harping on about winter fuel cuts no doubt only to secure the pensioner vote rather than any real empathetic reason. And yet, disabled and long term sick will be penalised by a loss of thousands per year to their only income. As Kendall and Reeves and co plod on regardless with all this.
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      · 8 hours ago
      @James That's right, unless we get a clear and binding announcement that pensioners wont be affected, we'll not be voting Labour.
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      · 10 hours ago
      @Jobsworth Zero Today They won't get the pensioner support because of the PIP assessments 4 point rule
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      · 12 hours ago
      @lamchops The only reason WFA will be changed in any way is for votes If the number crunchers say it is a viable vote winner it will happen in some form If it is not worth the effort no change will happen 
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      · 13 hours ago
      @Jobsworth Zero Today That I think is the point it is a cheaper option to  hand out £300 once a year than regular payments of pip, so they will swamp the press how caring they are giving pensioners there WFA back.
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    · 16 hours ago
    Winter fuel payment u-turn announced.  I fear this is bad for us - "we'll change our mind on this if you vote for disability cuts."  Though the bbc says it will emboldem mps wanting the disability cuts to not go ahead.

    On the other hand, it means that, even when a policy has gone through, there is still hope.
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      · 6 hours ago
      @Mick Yes, but even if they're inclined to support the government in the hope of promotion, they still have to answer to their constituents, and the polling on the disability cuts suggests the public doesn't like this policy (about -40 was the figure I saw). Voting for unpopular policies won't help their chances of reelection, and if they get turfed out in three or four years, bang goes any chance of getting their backsides on ministerial limos.
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      · 10 hours ago
      @tintack You'd think so, but this is career politics we're talking about.  Jobs for the boys and all that.
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      · 13 hours ago
      @Slb
      Just the divisive politics I was fully expecting them to pull.  Play off one group against another, attempt to cut the dissent and rebellion down at the lowest cost, appease enough and silence enough to carry on with the most abhorrent plans.
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      · 13 hours ago
      @Slb I would think that saying to their own MPs "we'll back down on the WFA if you let us throw sick and disabled people under the bus" is not likely to go down well.
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      · 14 hours ago
      @Slb Any MP worth their principles will still stand by us. It’s a betrayal if they don’t and I’m afraid they’d have to face any negativity from that. Because I might be behind a phone keyboard but I am sure as hell not giving up. This is wrong and I’ll keep banging on and on until they sort it out properly 
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    · 16 hours ago
    Is Whatley speaking on behalf of the same conservatives, whose own cuts/green paper was only scrapped when they lost the general election? 
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    · 18 hours ago
    To scapegoat the most vulnerable is a disgrace. How will the disabled who can't work be able to survive? Government know this but as long as they save money they don't care! Disabled people are made to feel like second class citizens 



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      · 12 hours ago
      @Caroline67 Do not forget malingerers and fraudsters
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      · 14 hours ago
      @Liv Heard Kendalls speech today in London, currently on Youtube. Made me cringe.
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      · 15 hours ago
      @Liv We are not disabled to them we are lazy scroungers
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    · 18 hours ago
    Just had a phone call from Ed Davey. I maxed out the opportunity to raise all the priority points, particularly that PIP is not an out of work benefit, so removing it will 1)not help people into work and 2)will cause people to have to leave work. That removing PIP has a domino effect on UC and carer's allowance. That WFA, although vital for many, is a drop in the ocean compared to what will be lost by disabled households. Also that this is not the economic climate to daydream that employers will pick disabled people for their vacancies over non disabled people. He said he plans to raise our case in PMQs today. I hope that he does. 
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      · 8 hours ago
      @Elizabeth Vidler Elizabeth, exactly. It feels like banging your head against a brick wall when they keep repeating this nonsense. ITV picked up on the issue again tonight in the news- they’re talking about the growing disquiet and they spoke a good chunk about it. 
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      · 10 hours ago
      @gingin gingin  I watched PMQs and Ed Davey did bring up your case, he detailed it quite clearly including how much you will be set to lose, however the useless Starmer said it is our aim to get people back to work, but you are in work, he clearly knows nothing about the benefits he plans to cut.
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      · 13 hours ago
      @Gingin I think in any fight of this kind it's they who fight longest, rather than shout loudest, who win. Fair play to you for sticking at it.
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      · 13 hours ago
      @Cecelia He will indeed! Starmer is cold and heartless, I detest him.

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      · 14 hours ago
      @Gingin
      "We just need to keep banging on- all of us. That’s why I got to speak to him in the first place."

      That's the key point - keep up the pressure on MPs, especially Labour MPs. The rebellion on the Labour backbenches seems to be growing and that momentum needs to be maintained. In particular, the government cannot be allowed to get away with making concessions on the WFA and two child cap as a way of bribing its own MPs into throwing sick and disabled people under the bus.