Most commentators have assumed that the Conservatives would always vote in favour of anything that resembled a benefits cut. But there now seems to be a possibility that the Tories are planning to support Labour rebels and vote against Labour’s Green Paper.

On 18 May, Conservative MP Helen Whately told the Standard: “Labour’s plans dodge the difficult decisions on welfare, leave more people out of work than they put in and will hit some of the nation’s poorest people.

“The sickness benefits bill is spiralling out of control and these rushed reforms will make things worse, not better.

“These plans are cruel, careless and clumsy. And it seems that even some of the people closest to Reeves agree with us, not her.”

What makes this total condemnation of the Green Paper particularly noteworthy is that Whately is the Conservative shadow secretary for work and pensions.  It seems unlikely that she would have been so outspoken in her criticism without party approval.

It is clear that the rebellion on Labour’s back benches has been growing in the two months since the Green Paper was published.

On 1 April, the Labour List website published the names of 27 MPs who said they would rebel against the government and 15 more who had expressed opposition to the Green Paper.

On 8 May, 42 Labour MPs wrote to the prime minister to say the cuts were impossible to support.

On 15 May, ITV reported that 50 Labour MPs were set to rebel, including the 42 who had signed the original letter.  100 MPs had also signed a private letter to Starmer urging the government to delay the changes and rethink its proposals. At least 6 MPs signed both letters.

Which suggests that somewhere in the region of 130 Labour MPs oppose the cuts, though there is no suggestion they would all vote against them.

The labour leadership are said to be considering a number of ways to buy off the rebels.  These include changes to the winter fuel payment means-test, changes to the two child limit or changes to the benefits cap. 

The idea will be to tell rebel MPs that the government doesn’t have the cash help these groups and also to drop its Green Paper cuts.

Whether this is a pitch that will work, remains to be seen.

But there seems to be at least a possibility that the Conservatives are now positioning themselves to take advantage of Labour’s disarray.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 46 minutes ago
    To scapegoat the most vulnerable is a disgrace. How will the disabled who can't work be able to survive? Government know this but as long as they save money they don't care! Disabled people are made to feel like second class citizens 



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    · 50 minutes ago
    Just had a phone call from Ed Davey. I maxed out the opportunity to raise all the priority points, particularly that PIP is not an out of work benefit, so removing it will 1)not help people into work and 2)will cause people to have to leave work. That removing PIP has a domino effect on UC and carer's allowance. That WFA, although vital for many, is a drop in the ocean compared to what will be lost by disabled households. Also that this is not the economic climate to daydream that employers will pick disabled people for their vacancies over non disabled people. He said he plans to raise our case in PMQs today. I hope that he does. 
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    · 1 hours ago
    Concessions on wfp and 2 child cap are maximum impact minimum pain for the government. The general population can get on board with loving nanas and kids and virtue signalling their outrage when those groups are threatened. It's the cute factor, whereas with the disabled, not so much.
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    · 2 hours ago
    Our case might be raised by Lib Dems in PMQs today!!
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      · 35 minutes ago
      @gingin can't wait to hear the same two or three sentences memorised by the government to spill out again !
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    · 4 hours ago
    In The Guardian this morning, Kendall is lying again, “That is why we are grasping the nettle of welfare reform. Not for the sake of it, but to save it.” 

    Labour states another admission that previous 'reforms' have been dismal failures that have only served to further impoverish the most impoverished. 

    Instead of raising taxes on the ultrawealthy, who would not be even marginally affected, the poorest and most vulnerable get no carrot but plenty of stick. When will politicians stop punishing the vulnerable for their suffering?

    In my estimation, The Guardian isn't winning any accolades for accuracy either, by quoting the government's own impact assessment: (paraphrased) cuts to Pip and the health element of UC means 3.2m households losing an average of £1,720 a year in benefits. Well known for reporting facts and doing their own research on important matters, this is not just lazy journalism, but gaslighting at its finest. 

    Because once again, other disability wards that will be impacted by these cuts are not even mentioned. Just PIP and UC. And without other disability claimants included, the number of claimants that would be affected are much higher than 3.2m. Because claimants with old style disability benefits such as DLA -some of whom are Pensioners- would also lose a significant portion of annual income. (For pensioners who have already lost WFA, I shudder to think how they would manage. And it's likely that many won't.) Those with DLA Higher Rate Mobility will lose £4,006.60 per year, and those with Higher Rate Care Component would lose £5,740.80 per year. That's magnitudes above 'the average' of £1,720 a year. If major newspapers aren't reporting it, the public and electorate aren't aware of it. 

    I try to always comment below news articles, to clarify omissions, inaccuracies, generalisations, and gaslighting. That paper has consistently and deliberately not allowed comments on welfare cuts by not including the comments section. 
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      · 1 hours ago
      @naheegan "Not for the sake of it, but to save it." The vacuous sound bite. 
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    · 11 hours ago
    Removing the child cap and reinstating the winter fuel allowance ain’t going to be enough. The wfa is once a year but to cut your pip is losing 12 wfa a year. 
    The news channels are deliberately only mentioning the fuel allowance and not a mention of pip savagery. 
    Are these news channels acting upon instruction from the government to lay it on thick about the fuel allowance while they sneak the pip cuts through. Oh we are reinstating the fuel allowance for pensioners we ain’t as bad as people make out seems to be the modus operandi!!
    They cannot be let get away with this absolute victimisation of those of us that are unfortunate enough to be disabled. 
    The media make out it’s a life of Riley being disabled and money thrown at us for free. 
    We have already one of the harshest systems in Europe to qualify for our benefits. And out of the top 20 benefit systems in Europe the Uk comes in at a miserable 15 th place. I challenge anyone to go through the humiliation from the dwp and vilification on the media we get and try and stay strong whilst fighting a disability also. 
    The 4 point rule has to go its savergy in its finest form. I would live to be back at my work and away every morning at 5 am like I used to but alas them days are gone not by choice but by illness. 
    Everyone write to your mp and enlighten them what this is doing to people’s physical and mental health.  
    Osbournes austerity cost 330000 excess deaths from 2012-19. 
    These cuts from labour will cause significantly more excess deaths guaranteed is that really who we are as a country now that we accept the culling of the infirm as if they were Nothing but a burden. Keep the fight up people and do the right thing not just anything. Take care all b
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    · 11 hours ago
    I cannot believe the Winter fuel Allowance is garnering so much media attention,it is £200 or £300 a YEAR.Around £5 a week at most.But they are pitting pensioners against disabled who are set to lose almost their entire income,thousands of pounds,just to balance the books! If this goes through I can't imagine how many stories of destitute sick ,disabled people there will be.Right before the next election.
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      · 42 minutes ago
      @Claire I agree, more needs to be said about the disabled, it's not a one off loss but like you say their entire income so how are they expected to live. It's an absolute disgrace made to feel like the biggest burden on society 😞 
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    · 12 hours ago

    " Liz Kendall, will double down on Labour’s £5bn disability benefits cuts on Wednesday, claiming she is reforming the welfare state to save it from collapse."

    So, save the system from collapse by making claimants collapse instead. Top work Liz.

    "Some of those threatening to rebel over the changes are committed Keir Starmer loyalists. The 100 backbenchers said to have signed the letter are described by MPs as broadly distinct from the 42 who signed a public statement this month calling the package “impossible to support”."

    If that's true they really could be in trouble if the Tories also vote against the cuts. This would suggest there are at least 140 or so backbenchers opposed, with some reports putting the figure as high as 170. I can't imagine this doubling down is going to win round many rebels - if anything it's only likely to antagonise even more of their own MPs.

    And what a damning indictment of a supposedly Labour government, that they are only now willing to consider a climbdown on the WFA and lifting the two child cap - things that any Labour government should be doing anyway - not because they believe in doing those things, but simply in an attempt to bribe their own MPs into voting through even worse cuts for seriously ill and disabled people. Any rebel who is made that sort of offer should tell them precisely where they can stick it.
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      · 2 hours ago
      @tintack It was planned this way. 
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    · 13 hours ago
    Didn’t the Tories propose much bigger cuts of £12 billion with one option being to replace PIP with vouchers for mental health claimants, or something like that?

    Unfortunately, this latest Tory move seems like opposition for the sake of it. I do hate it when parties rage against something just because it’s from an opposing party. 
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      · 2 hours ago
      @WatchandWait From what I've read here it looks as if the cuts will be much nearer to what the Tories proposed when one considers changes to UC etc.  Also, I note Timms' comments for those who will be denied PIP daily living along the lines of additional assistance in terms of aids etc. In other words, almost the same as what Sunak wanted last year. I didn't vote Labour at the last GE (I had my doubts regarding their proposed policies in relation to disability) nor at the local elections. (Lib Dem at the GE; Greens at the local election).  As mentioned elsewhere we all need to vote at the next GE.  
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      · 4 hours ago
      @WatchandWait Don't care what their motivation is, I'll take opposing votes from anyone 
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      · 5 hours ago
      @WatchandWait I don't mind it in this instance, if it's to our advantage - i'll take anything, frankly, at this point. 
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      · 9 hours ago
      @WatchandWait My enemy's opponent is my friend.
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    · 14 hours ago
    What DWP are doing can’t work. Because it’s not going to produce the result they claim they are aiming for of employment . I think there’s many reasons why things will be watered down or quietly abandoned altogether along the way. Plus the delays to things happening legal challenges and general incompetence. Unfortunately they are creating much harm in the process.I have my own personal reasons for hating DWP/HMRC etc but I don’t think they’ll get away with it. What they will do is just move the problem to councils social services. The uncertainty is cruel though. My worries are people who won’t survive. I’m trying to think about the WCA not changing until 2028 . I think a lot of folk probably should get 4 points and should seek advice and get it. Flood them with appeals. Also continue to resist and fight ant error or mistake we can. Make their life harder. The battle against us is evil and we can’t afford to be nice. Be just as cutting and ruthless but for a genuine and just cause. 
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      · 43 minutes ago
      @Old Mother That’s a good idea this is the sort of thing we need to do . Once people realise that it’s counter productive. Discredit them ha! . 
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      · 2 hours ago
      @Helen Galloway Agreed. Councils don’t have the capacity or funds to deal with this shift of responsibilities.  PIP is currently absorbing this shortfall.  Perhaps we should all  start looking to councils now for funding disability costs, that they currently aren’t covering. 
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      · 4 hours ago
      @Helen Galloway Yes! We need to be as disruptive as they are being. Time to put good manners aside.
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    · 18 hours ago
    Rachel Reeves has said today that she is listening to MPs concerns. She is considering reinstating the wfa for pensioners and scrapping the 2 child benefit cap. It's reported she may do both in order to get MPs to vote for the reforms to disability/sickness benefits.
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      · 1 hours ago
      @Truth Not that much good news for pensioners, just crumbs, especially if they do end up being hit by pip cuts, on which we could do with a clear answer, Stephen Timms.
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      · 2 hours ago
      @Cathedral city So continuing to pit one group against 
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      · 3 hours ago
      @Truth I don't think it's good news for anyone tbh. Is there such a thing as  deserving and undeserving poor? Dez makes a salient point: pitting the poor against each other is political and historic. 
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      · 3 hours ago
      @Cathedral city I get what you're saying about scoring political points. 
      I also think it's like choosing between the deserving and the undeserving poor. 

      Politicians have no concept of what it's like to try to survive on annual incomes of +/- £10k while rents, food and utilities reach record levels. In addition to
      With the average annual UK income of £32,292, anyone subsisting on benefits due to illness or disability meets the definition of living in deep poverty. How well paid and well provisioned people can think that cutting anything from that income bracket is indefensible. 


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      · 10 hours ago
      @tintack Unfortunately, I don't think people care about us.  Obviously people we know do, but not the general population.  Part of that is to do with Cameron/Osborne's workers vs shirkers rhetoric.  People now seem to think we sit at home because we want to.  Of course we all want to live a life on benefits - a completely unpredictable and often demeaning life.  Who wouldn't?  When I was doing my doctorate, I was thinking "I'll be glad when this is done, then I can get arthritis and sit on my **** all day and watch Bargain Hunt."

      Or that's what people seem to think. 

      I don't think the legislation will be voted down, because I don't think Labour will bring it to the Commons until they'll be sure of getting it through.  Even if it's a tight vote, it would be hugely damaging.  My assumption is that it will be watered down at some point, but the uncertainty is very damaging.  And even if it gets watered down, it might benefit one person and not another.   

      Labour could save themselves a great deal of hassle by disconnecting PIP and LCWRA UC.  Or simply say that mobility PIP will get you access to LCWRA in the same way that Daily Living would.  I see absolutely no logic in the idea that people who can't walk a single metre aren't disabled enough to get the disabled element of UC.   Yes, many of us would still lose money, but far less than it looks like we'll lose now.  

      Labour are still saying they're going to bring the legislation to the Commons before the summer recess, but I'm not sure that's going to happen.  It was originally slated for May, and that's definitely not going to happen. 
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    · 19 hours ago
    There's going to be a big death toll because if these PIP Cuts ,so maybe from a selfish point of view the Tories might try to exonerate themselves by voting against it ,even though they know the legislation will pass.
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      · 15 hours ago
      @Mick G
      "even though they know the legislation will pass."

      If the Tories vote against it and the Labour rebellion consists of 100+ MPs it's actually quite possible the government could lose the vote. Of course, we'll have to see how many of the 100 or more Labour MPs who are apparently opposed to the cuts actually vote against the government, but if they hold their nerve and do it there is a real chance the government could lose. Though if they think they're going to lose the vote - or if they think there's even a significant possibility they could lose - I suspect the vote would be pulled and they'd go back to the drawing board in the hope of coming up with something their own side find less objectionable.
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    · 20 hours ago
    Cons desperate in need of voters for the next GE.
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    · 20 hours ago
    SLB, How is it going on the X front?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 45 minutes ago
      @SLB Thanks for doing the shovel work, well, more like a back hoe, but point stands. I read you to previously say you were looking for MP X handles to tag them into posts, and needed some help with sourcing. I have 2 huge lists of Twitter handles (some w/emails) and I would venture that with the site changing to X, handles would not have changed. I'm not on X, but if you want these lists, how would I get them to you? I could give urls, but posting them where (here?) is permitted?


      I do wish that more MPs (and the media!) were aware of and talking about the fact that it isn't just UC and PIP claimants who will be affected by cuts. Other claimants affected will be those in receipt of DLA, Incapacity benefits (about 3m families), and pensioners still claiming PIP
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 16 hours ago
      @Yorkie Bard Lots of attention on the third volume of tags from the public (4pm must be the time to post!).  One MP has contacted me, asking me to email her.  So that's a start I guess!
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    · 21 hours ago
    IS the ss budget not ringfenced.?
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      · 18 hours ago
      @C No not ring fenced it's not like national security.
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    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 34 minutes ago
      @Slb Thanks for that, would not have seen it otherwise.
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      · 4 hours ago
      @Slb Love that they're called out for saying they can't use 'it's too hard' as an excuse. Pathetic department. 
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    · 22 hours ago
    It's plausible but not likely to happen. That said, the Tories seem to be opposing everything Labour does no matter how stupid the position is, and voting against the Green Paper is not a stupid position at all, rather it could be a strategic move (read: lie) to make the Tories appear more compassionate than Labour on their highly unpopular proposals.
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      · 15 hours ago
      @Chris C It is a statistical and fact of policy that the Tories would have been more compassionate than Labour.

      Current claiments would never have had to do another WCA review again under the Tories.
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    · 22 hours ago
    I just want to confirm that my X post with the disability benefits explainer has now tagged/mentioned 300 Labour MPs.   I confess I've learned a lot from it with regards to reaching people with social media posts. I posted the first two posts (50 MPs tagged in each) yesterday lunch, and it got 350 views.  I posted the third post at 4pm, and it has 10,000 views and 350 reposts.  Timing is everything, it seems!
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      · 4 hours ago
      @Yorkie Bard I mean 5lbs... Its early
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      · 4 hours ago
      @Yorkie Bard haha! So SLB is £5 and i'm 'Fungi' when autocorrect sneaks in. Tee hee...
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      · 14 hours ago
      @SLB Awesome. Is there a link?
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      · 17 hours ago
      @SLB SLB - I prefer it when you are shown as SLB. When I see Slb - I read it as five pounds!

      Any feedback yet to you gallant effort?
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      · 18 hours ago
      @SLB Thank you for all your hard work 
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    · 1 days ago
    Even if you're not a carer and/or don't have a carer, signing this letter still raises the issue of the PIP 4 point rule and UC health element cut. PLEASE SIGN! At the moment there are only 1600+ signatures. Email it to your MP as well if you can. 

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      · 19 hours ago
      @gingin I have just signed that letter to the prime minister 
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      · 22 hours ago
      @gingin Yes, please please sign, share, do whatever it takes, this is so important to us carers. Thanks gingin for bringing it to our attention. 
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    · 1 days ago
    I'll be happy enough if the Tories do vote against the PIP cuts but let's face it, they won't be acting on some worthy principle. It will simply be to undermine Labour for their own benefit. The Tories were quite happy to propose a voucher system for goodness sake, so their vote would just be a fine example of the duplicitous, two-faced hypocrisy that pervades all politics.

    Still, a win is a win, however achieved!
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