The Labour government will not be responding to the plan to replace PIP with vouchers, Stephen Timms has announced, in what appears to be the death knell for the proposal - at least for now.

Timms, minister for disability, was answering a question from Lib Dem MP Wendy Chamberlain who asked whether the DWP “plans to respond to the consultation entitled Modernising support for independent living: the health and disability green paper, which closed on 22 July 2024.”

Timms replied on 14 October:  “We do not intend to publish a response to the previous Government’s consultation. We will be considering our own plans for social security in due course and will fulfil our continued commitment to work with disabled people so that their views and voices are at the heart of all that we do.”

In response to a similar question from independent MP Alex Easton, Timms added that  “ We will be considering our own plans for social security in due course. As we develop proposals, we will consider the potential impacts of reform on disabled people.”

Whilst Labour have already said they would be producing their own proposals for social security, this is the first time they have confirmed that the Tory green paper is effectively dead.

This does not rule out the possibility that Labour could come up with similar ideas in the future, but it makes it much less likely.  It is very improbable that the government would decline to respond to a consultation on PIP vouchers and yet very soon afterwards unveil their own plan to introduce exactly the same thing.

Other proposals in the Tory green paper included replacing PIP with:

  • A catalogue/shop scheme
  • A receipt based system
  • One-off grants

The document also raised the possibility of changing the criteria for PIP by, for example,

  • removing the points for aids and appliances and for prompting,
  • removing some PIP activities
  • stopping claimants who get a lot of low scoring descriptors from being eligible.

It would be preferable if Labour would simply say outright that it has no plans to replace PIP cash payments with a voucher scheme.  But the party seems addicted to saying as little as possible about anything that concerns disabled claimants, instead preferring to leave people uncertain and distressed.

For the moment then, this seems the closest we are going to get to a denial. But there really does seem little likelihood that this month's budget or DWP white paper will contain a plan for PIP vouchers or for any of the other wholesale changes to PIP put forward by the Conservatives.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 5 days ago
    With all the charities and unions  it's all going to flop a high court is apparently to look at wca changes  in December as activists got the ok to challenge the wca changes they can't do anything without proving it works and they got to do that impact thing if the high court rules against the government like  many charities have tried think theres enough evidence aswell as the letters from charities saying it's dangerous then they will not go through look at all the white papers done in the past sure alot of them got forgotten .
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 5 days ago
    From the Chancellor herself 
    "There will be a widespread review of Health and Disability Benefits"
    Inevitable, brace yourself folks.
    I just hope (and pray) that the review and ultimately any and all changes that will take place is some distance down the road.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 5 days ago
    The chancellor has confirmed the DWP will have DIRECT ACCESS to our bank accounts!!!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 4 days ago
      @Old sick man That would probably only happen if someone is fraudulently claiming benefits that they want to get back. At least that’s how I see it playing out. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 5 days ago
    There's an article from the canary showing people shouldn't believe what they read about changes as the media make money scaring people it's worth reading for once don't know how to post it on here . 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 5 days ago
      @Lill That’s all just noise though. Who wants to bother with ranting that wastes time and energy criticising other websites. It’s exhausting and just a distraction from the real issues, imagine if another site did nothing but criticise this one all day. It just creates a toxic space of hate. They’re not actually part of the socio-political debate on disability and benefit reforms, they’re obsessed with what others are writing about it, I’d rather focus on what really matters like my health and finances! 
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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 days ago
    There seems to be a bit of a pattern here with these clickbait Reach articles. Because the vouchers proposal was the “main” one they focused on initially with their headlines and appears to have been shot down, they’re now changing tactics and trying to push the likelihood of the receipts system that was also proposed alongside the vouchers model. 

    They’re just regurgitating what was in the Green Paper to try and make the idea of this survey a lot scarier and nefarious than it may be. No doubt they’ll latch onto the one-off grant proposal next when nothing comes of this like the vouchers idea. Like people have been saying for months: be wary of these kinds of articles. The government have yet to indicate what their ideas for reform is so all they have to go on is old news from the Green Paper that they think we were too stupid to read properly while responding to it. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 days ago
    A lot of people seem to be reading the CambridgeLive/BirminghamLive websites and getting scared to death by their irresponsible, clickbait articles.  The following is the entirety of what Stephen Timms said back on 14th October (which those websites have only just picked up on), in its full context.  I have put in bold the bit about the survey, but it need to be read in the context of the rest of the comment.  There is nothing in what was said to suggest that there is a move to a receipt-based system.  The survey is not going to be a personal re-assessment, but for info only (and may even be anonymous - it doesn't say one way or the other).  But from what we can see below, it appears to be an information gathering exercise: which groups spend the money on taxis, which groups spend it on extra heating, which use it to buy foods for special dietry requirements etc.  

    "Personal Independence Payment (PIP) provides a contribution to the extra costs that may arise from a disability or health condition. There is no objective way of deciding what an adequate level of PIP should be, as everyone has different requirements reflecting their own circumstances and priorities.

    DWP pays close attention to the evidence base on the extra costs faced by disabled people; including academic research, analysis by Scope, and DWP’s own commissioned research on the Uses of Health and Disability Benefits from 2019. In order to understand more, DWP is now undertaking a new a survey of Personal Independence Payment customers to understand more about their disability related needs. This project has an advisory group of experts including representatives of the disability charity Scope and academic experts.

    PIP is a non-contributory, non-means-tested, additional cost benefit and can be worth over £9,500 a year, tax free. Individuals can choose how to use the benefit, in the light of their individual needs and preferences. The benefit can also be paid in addition to any other financial or practical support someone may be entitled to such as Universal Credit, Employment and Support Allowance, NHS services, free prescriptions, help with travel costs to appointments or the Blue Badge scheme. The benefits have been consistently uprated in line with inflation since they were introduced and were, like other benefits, increased by 6.7% from 8 April 2024."
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 4 days ago
      @darinfan I can’t even see the receipts thing in any articles - apart from one mention of it as a previous option alongside vouchers in the Tory proposals. No one anywhere has suggested or implied or said we are heading for a receipts based system, I am confused where this is coming from. I also doubt they’d do it. 

      I can see how they could want people to outline their disability-related costs at the time of applying as in Norway or Sweden or wherever it was. That has some logic to it (even if some on here may hate the idea) because it keeps the simplicity of cash payments but makes it more targeted.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 5 days ago
      @The Dogmother Exactly dogmother. Just as what also comes out of government and the dwp are more often than not just lies.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 6 days ago
      @darinfan It's not necessarily a matter of believing, its a matter of sharing for others to make their own mind up about it and give opinions. I don't believe anything until it's been authenticated. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 6 days ago
      @WatchandWait That's exactly it.  The receipts thing is coming from click but articles which people seem intent in believing.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 days ago
      @darinfan I’ve had a good look through all this and can’t see anything anywhere in any article or DWP ministerial response that suggests we are heading for a receipts-based system, just that Timms says they’ll do a survey on disability needs/costs. Where’s this receipts thing coming from?

      The survey could mean they’re looking at the possibility of basing awards on Individual needs/expenses. If so, some people could get more, some could get less, or there might be an entirely new set of payment tiers.

  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 days ago
    It seems that since 2010, governments have gone down this 'saving money' route but by making the process of attempting to reduce physical payments to claimants an oddly expensive one. 
    Imagine the sheer cost of manning a service that has to deal with countless enquiries, receipts, requests etc. and how utterly costly that would be.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 days ago
    I wonder how this survey will be worded, and what do they mean by extra costs exactly, it seems to me a round about way of not paying alot of people much if anything at all, it would appear that this lot are indeed as bad if not  worse than the tories, very depressing outlook
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 5 days ago
      @WatchandWait In many respects, the survey would likely throw the voucher and receipts idea out of the window for good, because everybody uses their money on different things.  For example, mine ranges from taxis to paying house cleaners through to sundries like lactose free milk.  That isn't going to work in a receipts based system, even if it is being thought about (and there's nothing to say it is). 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 days ago
      @Elizabeth Vidler They’ll probably be asking what additional expenses a person has because of their disabilities. I don’t see a problem with a survey to find out what people need their PIP for, it is an “extra costs” benefit after all. 

      I don’t think PIP is intended to cover - or could possibly cover - everything though. Many also claim UC or ESA as well, and some also work. 

      We have to face up to the fact changes are coming. Labour has said it will put forward changes/reforms. But also we should bear in mind the Conservatives would probably have pressed ahead with announcing huge cuts - and possibly vouchers - by now! 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 days ago
      @Elizabeth Vidler It's not a reassessment exercise.  Surely finding out who uses PIP and for what is a positive thing?  Results could end up giving more options for both the DWP and claimants.  For example, it might be that some would benefit more from a lump sum to make adaptations than monthly payments, just as some have chosen a vehicle over mobility payments. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 days ago
    They will want receipts before paying pip, thinking ahead to how things could end up. As if being disabled doesn’t already rob you of all of your dignity.  Awful to be ill or disabled and at the mercy of these.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 6 days ago
      @(No) hope This is nonsense, and I can only think you're making it up, which is scaring the crap out of other people here, abs it's utterly irresponsible.  Labour have NEVER mentioned a receipts based system.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 days ago
      @(No) hope @ (No) hope grinds you down all the rhetoric and misinformation, a proper account of what's actually going to happen would at least give us a heads up. Any changes wouldn't happen right away I know,but that's not the point. 
      It really is horrible to be reliant on benefits. I detest it. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 days ago
    No point  listening to the media it's all confusing now .
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 days ago
      @Lill @Lill according to the article it was Sir Stephen timms who said re the survey on pip and how it's used by the recipient.  But as you say it's definitely confusing. I'm getting pretty fed up of it coming at us  from all sides day and daily with no real solid proof of any of it. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 days ago
    No Hope you may well be right my mum said that she had seen or heard somewhere recently that those in receipt of PIP were going to be asked what they needed the money for, or what they spent it on, I don't know how it will be done, if they go ahead with that idea, it is just one attack after another on those with disabilites, don't hear much out cry about it though do you.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 days ago
      @(No) hope It's unhelpful information.  The website has highlighted situations in New Zealand, Sweden, and Norway, who have populations that are 10% of the UK.  What works there with 5 to 10 million population would create utter mayhem here with 66 million people, each gettingva different amount of money, and with receips being processed.  Again, they are just click bait, scaring people to death with irrelevant and unhelpful comparisons. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 days ago
      @darinfan You may not have to supply receipts at this stage, but at some point you may, if they copy the benefits model of other countries, as their claimants do, or is this misinformation also?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 days ago
      @(No) hope That isn't what they're doing, and neither are they asking for receipts etc.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 days ago
      @Elizabeth Vidler People have to stop paying attention to the "Live" websites masquerading as news sites.  Much of what they have written and published is little more than clickbait.  However, they quote Stephen Timms as saying:

      "DWP pays close attention to the evidence base on the extra costs faced by disabled people; including academic research, analysis by Scope, and DWP's own commissioned research on the Uses of Health and Disability Benefits from 2019. In order to understand more, DWP is now undertaking a new survey of Personal Independence Payment customers to understand more about their disability-related needs. This project has an advisory group of experts including representatives of the disability charity Scope and academic experts."

      And yet other news outlets haven't picked up on this.  BUT a survey doesn't mean that people are going to have to supply receipts etc.  It means that people are being asked what extra costs they have as someone who is disabled as a survey.  It's not going to affect the amount of money you get.  But it may well act as guidance in the future as to who needs the most financial support and who needs less when Labour eventually announces their changes to the benefits system at some point next year.  I don't see anything wrong, though, in actually asking recipients of the benefits what their requirements are.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 days ago
      @Elizabeth Vidler No, you are correct. They seem to announce something, then wait to see how bad a reaction it gets. They seem determined to pry further about why pip claimants need the money in the first place. Completely out of touch and ignorant about how illness and disability affects everyday living. Apparently they have or are having some input from scope, so I guess that is at least a positive.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 days ago
    Have I interpreted this correctly? That pip claimants are now going to receive a survey, asking about their needs, financially and otherwise? Will this be through the post or online? They seem determined one way or another, to find out how claimants use the money. To live is the answer, in a country where if you are sadly affected by a disability, without pip, housing costs, utility bills and food shopping would be unaffordable. The dwp seems to struggle with grasping this concept, that pip equals life, poor though that life may be.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 days ago
      @(No) hope No, you haven't interpreted correctly.  If it even happens, the survey will be a guide for them to see what groups need more financial aid through things like PIP, and which do not or could manage on less.   For example, do those with physical disabilities use taxi services more than those with mental health issues?  If so, that's a lot more expensive. A survey is not another personal PIP assessment form.  It's simply for their info on the kinds of things that the money needs to be used on, and which groups of disabled and sick are finding things more difficult than others.  So, if you get a survey, and you use your PIP to allow for extra heating costs or specific foods that you need or taxi services...just state that.  And PLEASE we need to stay away from the CambridgeLive/BirminghamLive etc websites.  They are little more than clickbait, and trying their very best to scare you to death.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 days ago
      @The Dogmother They would stop pip to everyone if they thought that they could get away with it.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 days ago
      @The Dogmother Or I should say "conducting" a new survey. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 days ago
      @(No) hope Yes, there was an article yesterday ( can't remember which paper) that said pip claimants could be asked to show how much they spend on their disability each month and itemise what they buy purely for their care or mobility needs.
      It sounds like they are considering the receipt system, like some other countries have, whereby claimants have to show each month what they have bought towards their illness/disability and only that amount is reimbursed.
      It's to stop people spending their pip on other things.
      Well just have to wait and see but there is no doubting the government are looking to save money on the welfare bill.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 days ago
      @(No) hope @(No) hope I found a link stating a survey is being set out to ask the  disabled what the extra costs they face are. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 days ago
    Labour want reforms  but are confusing themselves and everyone else who will be told in the spring budget 2025 is what  rumours are saying it's all going around in the media and nobody is going to know until anything is announced on .gov website or the live budget a mental health discussion was put on .gov  this month but it's confusing just know what ever happens it will get upheld as the activists ,unions, charities are working on things there's a review rumoured for December  at the high court there's ministers who aren't happy hope I'm right by saying the labours plans will just keep getting passed around and held up .
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 5 days ago
      @darinfan I found that and read it. I think people are getting confused. Those countries don’t appear to ask for regular receipts, they base awards on someone’s proven costs as supplied at the start of the claim. They’re examples of where costs are taken into account. It said what the accepted costs were so it gives an idea of what medics/government elsewhere look at. I found it interesting to see how their systems work, it doesn’t mean Labour will do the same. Just that they want to explore what people’s costs are.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 days ago
      @Lill And this is the problem of the internet and 24-hour news.  If there's no news, they speculate what the news might be further down the line.  And that scared people half to death, and often doesn't play out anyway.  The rumours about PIP aren't coming from Labour, they're coming from website that wants your traffic.  And the Birmingham Live/Cambridge Live type websites are worse than all of the others put together.  Their latest article about the "survey" ends up giving you examples of countries where receipts are required and that we might go down that route, but nobody has said that we will.  And DWP haven't mentioned New Zealand or Sweden or Norway (the countries they chose to talk about). 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 11 days ago
    I thought I would just pass a bit of good news on I sent of my PIP review on Monday and heard from DWP today my benefit awards top rate extended 10 year award   Never know it so quick what’s going on ?? 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 12 days ago
    I'm not impressed so far by our new government. Saying disabled people musn't be blamed for being disabled is the least they should be doing. 

    I get the feeling they're using the old method of leaking possible harsh changes, to see what reaction they get. 

    Like the last government they're saying their are too many sick people but increased numbers are hardly surprising when we have an underfunded NHS that struggles to treat people, operation waiting lists, and referrals, etc., leave people untreated for months and years, plus things like covid and the results of not being able to catch things like cancer early enough. Tory policies resulted in more people getting sick and staying that way, as well as more becoming disabled. 

    So far Labour don't fill me with any confidence that they understand what it's like under the current systems, nor do they seem willing to honoir their commitment to the sick and disabled. Tories said the same things and they were lying.

    Where are the measures to be fairer and lift the financial burdens from the people with less and spread the load amongst the well and exceedingly well off? It's their tone as much as anything that is depressing. 

    I hope I'm wrong and my fears are groundless but I think they may be about to be worse than the last government.


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 12 days ago
    Back in the 70s I worked for HMRC. I was advised by a colleague that Labour brought in more stealth taxes than the Conservatives. They have not changed. They have not closed the door on anything reference PIP yet. This is causing stress and concern amongst many disabled people. It is a form of mental torture that should be called out. I voted Labour hoping for truth and transparency, so much for my naivety.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 12 days ago
    I don't think vouchers are good ... People including myself use it for bills & food, and it's not like we want to be disabled ...  we should be able to use it as we wish, not be told how ... 
    They cancelled the cost of living (I know that was temporary cos of covid) and the energy , which alot of people relied on, so they need some way to pay them & use their benefits to pay it .... 
    Being Disabled is not a choice ... if we could work then we would,,, why use us as scap goats for schemes ...
    The rich have it far easier ... they look after the rich instead of Inforcing more ways for the higher class to pay more ... 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 10 days ago
      @SELondon It must be difficult being disabled in London with the cost of living there at least where a bit luckier in the North regarding prices
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 12 days ago
    I really can not see how a voucher scheme would work anyway.
    a) The variety of and timing of services/products specific needs to a disabled persons vary so much and the 'standard' nhs offerings/suggestions don't always fit the requirements.
    b) Even now getting VAT off suppliers of major projects such as alterations to home/bathrooms etc is a negotiation/wrangle.
    c) Any voucher scheme surely would surely cost more to administer/publicise or restrict offerings?

    Having had to purchase(on loan)  car with electronic handcontrols (motability offerings not suitable);do both bathrooms for access;wheelchair; all-terrain wheelchair, hoist and various adaptions annual maintenance of all equipment and replacement of parts/other accessories needed involving so many different organisations wonder how government could ever provide a scheme other than 'money' to support mine or anyother disabled persons needs without causing more anxiousness. Out of nearly 70M people in UK there is only a small minority percentage of us needing PIP.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 12 days ago
    Even if they don't wish to comment, it would be nice to know the outcomes from the consultation. 
    Not commenting, or ignoring the outcomes, would be a great way for them to introduce similar measures without having to say why they have gone against the responses.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 5 days ago
      @Loonz I think Labour just don’t want to acknowledge any proposals put forward by the opposition party, especially since the vouchers thing caused such an uproar (even though it was not the only idea included). 

      But whatever Labour do will also cause an uproar, won’t it? Hopefully Labour will work with Scope, Mind and others. Scope has itself said PIP does need reforms. In this economic climate, I can’t honestly see the amounts paid suddenly going up hugely, though.

      If they could make savings by attacking tax evasion and profiteering energy giants, that would help because maybe less would need slicing off the benefits bill. But the big problem remains of the UK being the only economy that hasn’t recovered after the pandemic. Why is that? What’s going on here that isn’t going on in other western nations? 

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